Dive operator: "We won't let you ..."

[Adobo]

Now we’re trying to decide between a $425 pp PADI rescue course and a $500 pp personalized DIR / GUE “Fundies” (Fundamentals?) course which would also take us down a certain road for equipment and diving habits. It’s mostly from ScubaBoard that I have started to learn how much we have still to learn!

If you decide to go with Fundies and wish to dive locally, I recommend to take it with one of the 3 local instructors. In addition the general topics covered, they can also provide great insight as to the techniques that are effective for the type of dives done in the Bay Area.

---------- Post Merged at 06:11 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 06:09 PM ----------

Sure you do.

Picture yourself on a boat. You're fresh out of OW class. The captain heads out into the ocean and keeps going for maybe 45 minutes, then says "We're here, have a nice dive!"

There's no DM and nobody is getting into the water with you except your buddy, who you met in your OW class.

Scared? Having second thoughts?

Now you know what your limits are.

flots.

The problem isn't usually that divers don't want to call dives when they are scared. The problem is when a diver arrives at a dive site and doesn't recognize any of the clues that they are unprepared for the dive in the first place and don't know enough to be scared.

 

[billt4sf]

BTW the operator from my OP was Sea Saba.

 

[diverrex]

BTW the operator from my OP was Sea Saba.

Sea Saba is a good op. They will definitley let all kinds of divers do deep dives, as will many tropical dive ops. Some days they only have one boat go out, some days they have two. In that case they will separate divers by skills and interests. We did 16 dives with them last November, every dive was over 65 fsw, 4 were over 100, a bunch others were 75 - 90. BTW we didn't see a shark on any of the dives.

 

[D_B]

I think this bears repeating

I don't think you should decide BETWEEN your two classes . . . I think, over time, you should do both of them. They have different areas of focus. The Fundamentals class or workshop will REALLY hone your buddy skills and show you the bar on situational awareness, as well as giving you some very good tools for dive planning and pre-dive preparation. Even if you decided, after the class, not to continue with the gear configuration you were shown, you would still have those things, as well as some coaching on really solid buoyancy and tolerance of task-loading.

Rescue, on the other hand, although it has a lot in it about how to think about, organize, and execute a Rescue, is also very much about how to avoid ever being involved in one. But if you frequent dive sites, you may well be involved with a Rescue situation not of your own making -- I have been involved in two. Having the training would certainly make you more comfortable, both in the situation itself, and afterwards, in knowing that you did what could be done.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Sure you do.

Picture yourself on a boat. You're fresh out of OW class. The captain heads out into the ocean and keeps going for maybe 45 minutes, then says "We're here, have a nice dive!"

There's no DM and nobody is getting into the water with you except your buddy, who you met in your OW class.

Scared? Having second thoughts?

Now you know what your limits are.

flots.

Unfortunately this happens more often than you'd like to think ... and all too often people are thinking of their limits in terms of what they paid to get there, not whether their skill level is up to the task of doing the dive with reasonable safety and comfort. When the captain or crew assures them they'll be fine, they're all too willing to accept it ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[fjpatrum]

I've also seen several cases where a buddy did not know how to support a diver at the surface and help them drop their weights. And I have the news and eyewitness reports of those who saw a diver drown 4 feet from the surface because her buddy did not know how to support her and drop her lead. He was trying to drag her up by her octo.
And the simple fact it is those skills, that some agencies consider basic rescue skills for their OW classes, take no more than one pool session of an hour and half to two hours to teach.

... Bunch of stuff deleted...

It's not that it's particularly hard to teach rescue skills (at least basic ones) or that it isn't taught properly. It's that most of us, whether we admit it or not, simply don't practice these skills often enough for it to be "automatic" and properly executed when needed. Hell, most of us don't even practice cramp relief and air shares.

I have done exactly 1 tow since OW (in my massive 25 dives of experience) and never practiced bringing anyone unresponsive to the surface. I wasn't taught that skill but I have seen videos (the 5th dimension ox-tox video is a good example of how it should be done, I believe) and believe I could execute it, though probably not elegantly.

It's not lack of education, it's lack of practice.

 

[Wookie]

BTW the operator from my OP was Sea Saba.

Saba is relatively easy diving, warm, clear water and not too much current. Yes, I would think that you would be fine there too.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

It's not that it's particularly hard to teach rescue skills (at least basic ones) or that it isn't taught properly. It's that most of us, whether we admit it or not, simply don't practice these skills often enough for it to be "automatic" and properly executed when needed. Hell, most of us don't even practice cramp relief and air shares.

I have done exactly 1 tow since OW (in my massive 25 dives of experience) and never practiced bringing anyone unresponsive to the surface. I wasn't taught that skill but I have seen videos (the 5th dimension ox-tox video is a good example of how it should be done, I believe) and believe I could execute it, though probably not elegantly.

It's not lack of education, it's lack of practice.

When I do my gas management seminars one of the questions I ask the audience is "How many of you have practiced air share drills since you learned them in your Open Water class?" Normally only a small percentage of the audience raises their hand. So I'll ask you the same question I ask them ...

Don't you think it would be a good idea to make sure you are comfortable performing this procedure before you find yourself in a situation where you will have to?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[TMHeimer]

Absolutely what NW & fjpatrum said. When I was first certified I didn't practise anything (that I can think of). Since doing Rescue & DM I do all the time. On solo dives I do things not needing a buddy. I have a list of tips I figured out to help me keep my skills in order, and go over it mentally once weekly, whether I actually do them in water or not (as well as reviewing CPR). Although I have seen it, I would imagine very few OW divers do any of this.

 

[Peter Guy]

The last few posts are why I argue against teaching "skills" like the unresponsive diver on the bottom in the basic open water class. This particular skill is one that goes away very quickly without practice and repetition -- and it is one that is not all that easy to practice while on a "real" dive. On the other hand, the "basic skills" I highlighted earlier are all ones that can be practiced and/or made part of one's normal dive and thus they remain relatively fresh and useful.

Even an air share can be practiced easily during a normal dive -- either as just a drill while on a safety stop or as the (often criticized) practice of "borrowing a cup of air" just for kicks. But if a "skill" isn't practiced it quickly isn't a useful tool.