Diver lost in Cozumel today

[JenniferakaJen]

even though that day was something to remember. I had a good time and would do it again.

 

[mexdiver]

Well, where do I start. Ok, how about the certifying agencies themselves. I am convinced that more scrutiny and regulation of the certifying process is needed. Diving as we all know, is one of the most extreme sports one can partake in.

Sure, flying airplanes, skydiving, mountain climbing, auto racing etc all have their dangers. Let's look at these. Flying- takes minimum 50-70 hours just to get license. Mountain climbing- not aware of any license but never have seen a store like a dive shop, offering for $500 to certify you to climb mt. Kilimanjaro. Auto racing- I guess like mountain climbing, no store offering ride at Daytona 500 for an easy 1 week 500 dollar course.

A person can walk into a retail dive shop, plop down 500 and within several weekends, obtain a card saying they are an open water certified diver. This card entitles this person to go anywhere in the world, and dive to 60 feet.

When I look back over the hundreds of dives in so many different places, I realize how completely unprepared I was for ocean diving. It was through more study, reading, immersing myself in seeking knowledge from the more experienced divers, actually diving in different situations, that eventually allowed to to become, what I consider a competent scuba diver.

I fault the dive industry for promoting diving as if it's as easy and risk free as going to the grocery store.

The Mexican federal law does not recognize nor required any affiliation to any diving certification agency to open a dive shop in Mexico. All these agencies does is give to the dive operator an international standard recognition so divers like you and me feel safer due to the safety guidelines provided by those certification agencies.

These articles are from the Chapter IX of the Official Law that referred to Diving Operators and safety to the users “divers” in the state of Q.Roo


Article43: The dive operator shall fallow with all requirements established on the Official Norms of Mexico “federal law” number 009 with ALL terms by the law which guarantee to provide required service and safety to the users “tourist”


Article44: The dive operator or dive shop shall employee “guides” recognized by the Federal Tourist Bureau preview to diving. The dive operator shall inform divers “tourist” about any physical and healthy risk and causes that could happened when diving. And the user “diver” shall provide in writing by acknowledgement and agreement of these physical and healthy risks (the waiver form)


Article 45: The dive operator shall have an internal safety rules with the purpose to prevent accidents which shall give to the user “diver” at the time of service contract. Such a safety rules shall contain the minimum requirement of security to practice the activity including the shape of the equipment and any other technicalities that will required practicing this activity “diving”.


Here is the Spanish version.


REGLAMENTO DE LA LEY DE TURISMO DEL ESTADO DE QUINTANA ROO

CAPITULO IX
DE LAS OPERADORES TURÍSTICAS DE BUCEO Y LA SEGURIDAD DE LOS USUARIOS​

Artículo 43.- Las operadoras turísticas de buceo deberán satisfacer los requisitos que sean establecidos en este Reglamento y en la Normas Oficial Mexicana número 009 en los términos de la Ley en la materia y que garanticen suficientemente la prestación del servicio y la seguridad del usuario.
Artículo 44.- El prestador, de preferencia, empleará guías reconocidos por la Secretaría Federal de Turismo, previamente a la inmersión, la Operadora Turística de Buceo deberá informar al usuario sobre los impedimentos físicos y las enfermedades que impliquen riesgos, una vez hecho lo anterior, el usuario manifestará por escrito si tiene o no algún impedimento físicos o padece alguna enfermedad, declarando además haber recibido la información a que se refiere este artículo.
Artículo 45.- La Operadora Turística de Buceo deberá contar con un Reglamento Interno de Seguridad con el objeto de prevenir accidentes, cuyo ejemplar deberá entregar al usuario en el momento de contratar los servicios. Dicho Reglamento deberá contener los requisitos mínimos de seguridad para el desarrollo de la actividad en la persona del turista, estado del equipo y demás aspectos técnicos.

 

[Cave Diver]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

Thread re-opened after review and cleanup...

The off topic discussion regarding the benefit of a snorkel vs. regulator at the surface has been moved to here: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic-scuba-discussions/416628-i-split-snorkel-vs-reg-surface.html

Several insulting posts and the followup response to them have been removed. Play nice in the A&I sandbox, or you're going to get yourself kicked out of it.

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[Skodises]

Just FWIW- we literally just got off the Carnival Legend in Tampa after the 4/1-4/8 sail. We were to be in Cozumel on Wednesday, and had booked a two-tank in advance through the ship. Come Monday evening, we found a notice in our cabin inbox that the Coz dive trip had been cancelled due to "operational difficulties" on the part of the op, which we later confirmed was Sand Dollar. No other info was made available to us, so we went with our gut feel and spent our day sleeping in and then relaxing at Three Amigos instead of thrashing around to find another op.

All the other dives we'd planned came off without a hitch, FWIW.

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[DandyDon]

Just FWIW- we literally just got off the Carnival Legend in Tampa after the 4/1-4/8 sail. We were to be in Cozumel on Wednesday, and had booked a two-tank in advance through the ship. Come Monday evening, we found a notice in our cabin inbox that the Coz dive trip had been cancelled due to "operational difficulties" on the part of the op, which we later confirmed was Sand Dollar. No other info was made available to us, so we went with our gut feel and spent our day sleeping in and then relaxing at Three Amigos instead of thrashing around to find another op.

All the other dives we'd planned came off without a hitch, FWIW.

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Sorry you missed diving Coz. There are many other Ops there to accommodate you, some really good ones, but I guess it'd be difficult to book while underway.

The accident is still making the news daily on the web even tho no more info seems available. See Grandmother feared dead after being sucked away from husband's side in strong currents during scuba dive | Mail Online which is a UK news site.

The week of the accident was well documented in reports on our Coz forum as one of horrible currents, downwellings, eddies, etc. and I just think they were taken to a site that was well beyond their minimum experiences. They had no had a chance for a saltwater weight-check in their newish gear, and it's all too common for newbies to overweight as well as fail to ditch weights in emergencies. I am speculating, but since she was not found floating in 3 days, nor washed up on the mainland - I think my hunches are warranted.

Some cruisers come to our Coz forum for local dive advice, but not if they are going to go with the ship's contracted Ops. I wish the cruise forums would really push the idea of hiring private DMs at least for the first stops.

 

[Mike]

Just FWIW- we literally just got off the Carnival Legend in Tampa after the 4/1-4/8 sail. We were to be in Cozumel on Wednesday, and had booked a two-tank in advance through the ship. Come Monday evening, we found a notice in our cabin inbox that the Coz dive trip had been cancelled due to "operational difficulties" on the part of the op, which we later confirmed was Sand Dollar. No other info was made available to us, so we went with our gut feel and spent our day sleeping in and then relaxing at Three Amigos instead of thrashing around to find another op.

All the other dives we'd planned came off without a hitch, FWIW.

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I'm sure the cruise ships are doing some due dilligence in regard to the safety of their passengers after the diver's death with Sand Dollar.

 

[WSOPFAN]

Originally Posted by ​

WSOPFAN

Once again another story of how money won over safety.​

How do you figure that?

Originally Posted by ​

WSOPFAN

Once again another story of how money won over safety.

What was that about how you are the safest?​

I'd also be cautious in the accusations you're making with no proof other than what you've read on the internet and are drawing your own conclusions and slandering that company. You aren't invisible and they can come after you. You have zero proof, zero knowledge of anything that transpired, but are making some very serious accusations.

Well let's see more news to clarify what we already knew........

Acworth woman disappears scuba diving in Mexico | www.wsbtv.com

Allow me to point out a few things.........

1) Taking divers over a wall PAST their certification depth limit IS IN FACT a violation of their safety PERIOD.
2) The article states the DM was so concerned about the currents he changed dive sites....yet STILL put inexperienced divers into the water knowing the conditions in violation of their safety AGAIN.
3) A dive shop who advertises such a stellar safety record should NOT be doing this to divers.

BTW if they did nothing wrong why is it being reported on another site that Sand Dollar has been suspended by the cruiselines for AT LEAST 2 weeks?

Post #6
RE CZM. Sand Dollar lost a diver on Santa Rosa Wall while I was diving...+

Also, talking about how a dive shop screwed up and was a contributing factor in a diver's death AFTER THE FACT......is NOT slander.........and anyone coming after me for discussing such things after the fact is laughable.

 

[gdbkev]

I have to agree with you Craig. I was not only this dive boat, but I was in the group of eight that surfaced with only seven. There were 22 of us on the boat not including the dive team. Even though we all filled out the paperwork explaining our dive history, we were organized into our smaller groups only by our seating on the boat. We happened to be the eight furthest from the stern, thus we were last group to dive. The dive team did make it VERY clear that this was going to be a tricky descent and the need to stay together was of the utmost importance. I am a new diver. This was actually my trip after completing my training in West Palm Beach. I had heard from not only the divers at the Jupiter Dive center in WPB, but also from my local dive shop owners here in NYC, Cozumel is nothing but drift dives. I think having all my training so fresh on my mind I was ready to handle it. This dive was by NO means enjoyable. I had never imagined I would have to put so much air into my bcd or fin SO HARD to stay buoyant and stay on the heels of our DM. I never expected him to keep a constant eye on all of us, though he did make a concerted effort to turn around and watch us, but as a new diver all I wanted to do was stay glued to him and keep an eye on my buddy. It wasn't until 15 minutes into this dive that I was even aware of the marine life around me. I was exhausted from this dive.

It wasn't until we were aboard the boat that I found out we were missing her. I had always assumed Christina had surfaced and that we would eventually find her floating if we looked long enough. Those of us at the stern were looking for her the entire time, but the white caps did play tricks with our eyes. The part that haunts me the most is having the realization after the fact that I remember seeing her weight belt before the dive. She had wrapped the excess belt around itself about three times. I may be a new diver, but I know this would make a quick removal nearly impossible. The dive team had pointed out the added fee of $3 for every pound of weight lost and a $10 fee for the belt if lost. Hopefully this threat of a fee didn't encourage Christina to make it nearly impossible to lose her weight belt in an emergency. Either way I will never sit idly by and let someone do something like that in my presence without me pipping up and saying something, even if that makes me an obnoxious stranger...

That was our first port of call on this twelve day cruise. It never really left my mind for the rest of the cruise, and still lingers in my head. It really making you understand the frailty of life, and how we need to appreciate every minute with those that we love. I just pray that she is eventually found for the family's sake. My prayers go out to them.

 

[boulderjohn]

I think having all my training so fresh on my mind I was ready to handle it. This dive was by NO means enjoyable. I had never imagined I would have to put so much air into my bcd or fin SO HARD to stay buoyant and stay on the heels of our DM.

Neither should be true. How much weight did you have, and how was that weighting determined?

It wasn't until we were aboard the boat that I found out we were missing her.

We have heard conflicting reports. Did her husband stay with the group until the dive was over, or did he try to ascend with her?

The part that haunts me the most is having the realization after the fact that I remember seeing her weight belt before the dive. She had wrapped the excess belt around itself about three times. I may be a new diver, but I know this would make a quick removal nearly impossible. The dive team had pointed out the added fee of $3 for every pound of weight lost and a $10 fee for the belt if lost. Hopefully this threat of a fee didn't encourage Christina to make it nearly impossible to lose her weight belt in an emergency.

You are correct--you should never do that with a weight belt for the reason you state. It would not surprise me if that warning of a financial penalty for losing weights did not influence her thinking. I find this very troubling.

 

[gdbkev]

I was wearing 16lbs. which, with my 5 mil suit has always worked well. As for the husband, to the best of my memory, he came up to the surface with the rest of us at the end of our 27 minute (according to MY dive computer) dive hitting the water at 10:02am.