Diver lost in Cozumel today

[flots am]

However, prior to reading about and discussing this incident here, I can picture myself leaving my buddy to try to get the DM's attention to let them know we were aborting dive. Now, having read this thread and thought about it, I will stick with my buddy no matter what, even if it meant I didn't get to notify the DM. Just as the DM's first responsibility is to the group, my first responsibility is to my buddy. If I have to choose between my buddy and the DM, I will choose my buddy.

Congratulations! You've just eliminated a whole raft of potentially fatal problems for both you and your buddy!

I know people are upset by these concepts, but sometimes learning is painful. If a small pile of possibly-uncomfortable messages on the internet can save lives, they're well worth it.

I wish I'd read these before following my Cozumel DMs on dives I wasn't remotely qualified for. The most valuable thing I've learned over the years is when to say "no."

flots.

 

[jd950]

There are a number of Cozumel dives that would be fine for beginner dives under most circumstances. Paradise, Chankanaab, Paso del Cedral, Columbia shallows and Barracuda come to mind.

Okay, not the last one, that was just a test to see if you were paying attention. I think most dive ops will take newer divers to those and similar sites, but perhaps they need to be more assertive in picking appropriate locations?

As to the incident in question, we don't know what happened, but some of the conditions on that day were such that even a close buddy might have made no difference and I am inclined to assume that to be the case, in the absence of evidence to the contrary. Possibly the close presence of an equally new buddy would simply have doubled this tragedy.

Personally, my vote would be to get rid of the cruise ships, for a number of reasons. I realize that idea might offend a lot of people, and for that I am sorry but take heart, it will never happen. I just wanted to put what I view as a happy thought out there. They actually would prohibit diving before they would ban the cruise ships.

I have mentioned this before, but what is it about cruise ships that inspires otherwise normal people to walk around town in balloon hats?

I seem to be drifting off topic. Sorry.

 

[ScubaMom56]

I am sorry if I have missed the post, but, was the diver who died also from the cruise ship?

 

[AggieDiver]

Yes, she and her husband arrived on a cruise ship and were diving with an operator contracted by the cruise ship according to several reports.

 

[DivemasterDennis]

Sometimes leading divers is a stroll in the park, sometimes it's like herding cats. What a DM SHOULD know are the conditions in which the dive is to be made, some information on the ability level of each diver in the group, and identification of those divers with a special issue or who present as potential problems. I learn all I can about the divers I will be with regardless of conditions, but "dig deeper" if I know conditions will be more challenging than normal. I brief on known or potential hazards and current. If the conditions are less than ideal, I emphaize rules according to conditions- buddy proximity, group proximity, and proximity to me, both lateral and vertical. Then I pray all of us will stay on the same page we were on when we planned the dive once we are all in the water. I remind divers of their responsibility to themselves and their buddy, and I remind them I am not a psychic. But I also watch all the divers in the group as much as much frequency as I can, given the group size, special needs, and diver conduct. I do not "insure" anyone's safety, but I like to believe that other divers, particularly new divers, are safer diving with me than without me. I take the role of dive leader very seriously, even if I am diving in a group of 2, including myself. I think most DM's do. A big part of that is the briefing and conversation before the dive. I give all the information I can, and collect all the information I can get about the divers going in the water. All DM's should do the same. Stuff can still happen, but its less likely to happen the more everyone knows about conditions, each other, and expectations on the dive. Also, divers- everyone of you- whether on your first dive or your 1000th dive: Pay attention to the briefing, be truthful about you abilities and experience, follow the dive plan, and STAY CLOSE TO YOUR BUDDY. If you have issues beyond the norm, or unspoken anxiety, you and your buddy should stay close to me. That's my 2 cents worth on this thread.
DivemasterDennis

 

[JenniferakaJen]

March 28th 2012 Cozumel Mexico was a scary day for all divers the current was strong. My heart goes out to the friends and families for there loss. My boyfriend and I and his family were also diving that same day at Santa Rosa wall. Thankfully our dive master was able to keep us safe through out the dive, even though there was some panicking through the dive because the current was so strong I was able to stay calm and swim to the bottom of the surface and use my hands to help me get to the top of the tunnel our dive master was leading us to get away from the strong current. Once our group was all together in a area were the current wasnt so strong the panicking stop and we headed out and was able to continue in the safety procedures and our safety stop to get to the top of the water. Later that week we dived with a different dive master who has dived there for a long time who we have dived with in the past and is the best dive master I have ever dived with. He told us that we should have never been diving at santa rosa wall and that no one should have been. A lot of scary stories were told that day. I am telling my story because im confused on what happened. After we all did our safety stop and our group came to the top of the water together our captain of our dive boat told us to wait and that there was an emergence on our boat but not with anyone from our group. We stayed in the water for several minutes hoping everything was ok and wondering what has happen as we were bobbin in the water waiting to get back on the boat. After a rescue boat had come and gone we were able to get back on the dive boat. The story we were told is that a girl came to the top on the surface almost unconscious and the captain of our boat and his crew was able to pull her up on the boat and give her oxygen until the rescue boat came to get her. We never heard the out come of what happen to this girl our dive boat had pulled out of the water, if she was ok did she make it... We heard two different stories (rumors) like she didnt make it. We also heard she was in the hospital recovering. I have read all the articles about the lost diver Cristina Cassin but I have not been able to find anything about a rescued girl from a dive boat we saw the same morning. Is this a different Girl? All I know is we were all diving at Santa Rosa wall at the same time 10 o clock the morning of March 28th. I dont know if my story helps I guess a part of me is hoping that it is the same girl and she is resting in a hospital recovering. My heart goes out to anyone who experienced the diving on that day and my prayers to the friends and families.


~ Jen

 

[MMM]

Hi Jen. Sounds like you had a difficult day. The diver who is the subject of this thread has not been found so is not the the same as the one you heard about who came to the surface and received attention. Your profile notes you have less than 25 dives. Saying someone is the best DM you have ever encountered may well be true but keep in mind it's a small sample size! It is really a difficult matter for one DM to second guess another's decisions given that the currents change so much in Cozumel from one site to another and one time of day to another. If they are believed to be sketchy, my experience is that the DM will jump in and check first. That does not mean they won't change DURING the dive. I am glad you are OK. Did you have any learnings from the dives you did that you would like to share?

 

[MMM]

A large number of ops in Cozumel on smaller boats tell divers to remove their BCDs and pass them up to the crew. They then climb up the ladder w/o the BCD/tank. Many is the time that I need to remember to let go of my mouthpiece clenched tightly in my teeth as I pass all this stuff off to the crew as I was taught to never let go of my reg until I was on the boat (especially after getting whacked by a big wave off a ladder as I was climbing back on a Florida boat with all my gear). That makes sense when you are climbing onto the boat with all your gear! Not for the smaller boat ops in Ciz!

 

[oceanbound]

I think that though I would not call myself an expert on this or any other conversation I do have experience with it. I have done about 12 cruises and well over 300 dives. Since being certified I now dive in most of the ports I cruise too. For me, cruising is the least expensive way to get to see some of the ports that I want to dive. Most experienced divers who do cruise will probably tell you that they research to find out what dive op the cruise line uses. If it is one that they would choose for themselves then they will book the dive with the cruise line. Why? because it's less stress of worry about if they are going to get back to the ship on time. But, after doing research, if I feel that another dive op is a better choice then I'll book outside the ship. In the end it's all going to end up costing close to the same.

Example: if I book with ships excursion, then travel expense to the dive op is taken care of. If I book outside the ship, then I pay for the taxi or bus to get me to the dive center unless other arrangements have been made.

I often book outside of the ship. This is due to many reasons. One of which is I have some favorite dive ops, some from experience I don't want to use again. I do my research and look for what I want in the dive. But there are a few ports that I dive with the ship's excursion as they use the same op that I would pick anyway. If I am unfamiliar with a port, or cannot find information on other dive ops, I'll use the ships excursion. Most dive ops that don't have contracts with the ship lines do work with cruise passengers and accomadate for time restrictions. If they don't they will state that. I've only had one time that I thought that I might not get back to the ship on time. We got back within 14 minutes of the gangway being pulled.

If you look at Sand dollar's web site, on the right hand side of the home page it states that cruise passengers must book thru their ship. On the left hand side of the same page is a link to click for "cruise passengers" when you click it another screen comes up with buttons for each of the cruise lines for schedules. If you actually click on one of the cruise lines it takes you directly to the cruise line's own website. Nowhere does it indicate that they will book a cruise passenger independently of the cruise line. Now if someone wanted to book outside the ship as in the case of ANY excursion (not just diving) they could but why would they? they aren't going to save much if any money and have added stress of worrying about getting back to ship on time. But RESEARCH is the key.

And Don, to answer your question about what ships tell their passengers about Cozumel (and most ports) is they do tell you that if you purchase things from places outside of what is on their "recommendations" then they won't back it up if something is wrong with it. They have made contracts with companies and try to sale passengers on those companies. That's business. I have no problems with this as to me it's still a lot cheaper to cruise than fly.

As far as others who remark about stopping the cruises from going to port, well, then I would suspect then that visitors to those ports, including Cozumel, to dive would be paying much more due to the loss of income which us "pod people" bring in. I can see that they can be annoying if one resides near the port, but it would be similar to living in the coastal communities in the US who have spring breakers, and summer tourist. Business depends on them. Of course they are going to grip about them but they need them. If you are visiting Coz or anywhere else, while a ship in port, and you want to avoid the crowd, then stay away from the shops, restaurants, and bars near the port. Passengers, especially during the last 2 hours in port, will be near the port.

In all the times I've been to Cozumel I have never experienced anything like what is being discussed about this particular site and I hope I never do. It just makes me realize that I should not take any of my dives for granted and a reminder that conditions do change. I do hope they find the woman so the family has closure. I would like to know what happened so that I can learn from it and be as prepared as possible. I know that the currents in Cozumel range from a nice steady pace to very fast.

 

[JenniferakaJen]

i havent been on a lot of dives but i just ment that from what iv been on hes the best DM iv dived with..