Moderation: Too much or too little?

[ScubaSteve]

My hat is off to them.

Moderators are doing a thankless job you could never get me to do. Course, who the hell would want me to do it?

You are so full of your eyes are brown.

 

[Buoyant1]

Very few forums allow it. We aim to be different.

As a reminder, using a popcorn smiley is NOT against the ToS. It's just not in our collection of smileys anymore. We might be deleting and/or adding others as we see fit. Somehow, I don't think the Scuba World will end by their inclusion or exclusion. After all, if we were all about censorship, we would have trimmed a lot in this thread already. The goal is a friendlier ScubaBoard. That may not fit your goal, or you may not understand why we think this will help us get there. That's OK, and in reality, I appreciate all feedback be it positive or negative. No, I can't act on all the suggestions and criticisms, but we do weigh them as a team and then we make our best decision for the community. We're not always right, but our growth would suggest that we are right more often than all the other Scuba forums. At least for now.

It has nothing to do whether the "smiley" is against the blessed book of ToS or not...this is a social forum...and the fact that something like that has been deleted (or any of the smileys deleted) just shows to me that some people are way to thin skinned to be here, and need to realize that this is a discussion forum where people AREN'T going to agree with your "little lord and lady Fauntleroy attitudes" and something like a smiley is necessary for people to let them know that their little opinion smells and has the texture of the stuff that follows a sheep (and I'm not talking about Letterboy, either)

I'm not complaining because the (or any other) smiley has been eliminated, I'm complaining because of the REASON these "toys" were taken from us...we keep reading that "this is our board" ...well we want things back!

I've heard the phrase "making this a friendlier Scubaboard" a few times, and I think it's a load of bunk truthfully! First of all you need to start at the top! There are a few people that "work here" that aren't very friendly, and no matter what comments are made to you Pete, or any other moderator! These people still continue to bash, humiliate, and annoy a LOT of people! Self policing is where it needs to begin, then you can start mandating what the masses are doing!

As I've said before..as long as it's not a personal attack, pure bunk or something that compromises safety (in the diving forums, especially the basic scuba forums) or doesn't use the "seven dirty words that you can't say on television", or x-rated photographs, I don't see the need for SOME of the over moderation that's going on here, especially in the social forums!


Just my opinion.....

 

[ScubaSteve]

.......and has the texture of the stuff that follows a sheep (and I'm not talking about Letterboy, either)

:spit:

I personally find the new popcorn smilie (as in :popcorn:) more offensive because it references two colons and even though the colon is part of the human anatomy, it is still a dirty part.....and depending on who the colon is attached to, it can be QUITE offensive as well. IJS

 

[The Chairman]

It has nothing to do whether the "smiley" is against the blessed book of ToS or not

I agree with this.

Smileys have been added and deleted on ScubaBoard since it's inception and have nothing to do with moderation. Let's stick to the discussion about moderation in this thread and talk about smileys in the smiley thread.

 

[Quero]

...this is a social forum...and the fact that something like that has been deleted (or any of the smileys deleted) just shows to me that some people are way to thin skinned to be here, and need to realize that this is a discussion forum where people AREN'T going to agree with your "little lord and lady Fauntleroy attitudes" and something like a smiley is necessary for people to let them know that their little opinion smells and has the texture of the stuff that follows a sheep (and I'm not talking about Letterboy, either)

Let me turn this around and show you another way to look at it:

...this is a social forum...and the fact that there has been cause to remove the popcorn smiley (along with others) just shows that some people are way too anti-social to be here, and that these pot-stirrers need to realize that this is a discussion forum where people don't WANT to be subjected to their "Jack Merridew attitudes." That something like a smiley is used by some to let others know that their little opinion smells and has the texture of the stuff that follows a sheep (and I'm not, talking about Letterboy, either), is evidence of the sort of aggressiveness that ScubaBoard can quite happily do without.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I agree with this.

Smileys have been added and deleted on ScubaBoard since it's inception and have nothing to do with moderation. Let's stick to the discussion about moderation in this thread and talk about smileys in the smiley thread.

... but changing and removing things that are already in use is moderation, Pete ... because it alters the appearance, and in some cases the meaning, of posts that have already been made. Yesterday morning's activity is a perfect example, and really does highlight the more salient point that Buoyant1 made ...

There are a few people that "work here" that aren't very friendly, and no matter what comments are made to you Pete, or any other moderator! These people still continue to bash, humiliate, and annoy a LOT of people!

That is exactly how I took the moderation that resulted in the substitution and subsequent removal of a smiley that altered my posts here ... and I'm generally supportive and inclined to give your staff the benefit of the doubt, as my prior posts in this thread would demonstrate. Yesterday's moderating activity did nothing positive, and only sent me a message that certain staff members generally view participants here as a bunch of muppets that can be toyed with. That made me angry.

I agree that there are a few on staff who seem to delight in flaunting their authority. They create more problems with the readership than they resolve. They produce conflict where none should exist ... because rather than being friendly, they insist on being authoritarian ... and most people will not respond well to that sort of behavior.

The message I'm taking away from the question of why this smiley disappeared ... even from you, Pete ... is "because we said so". That doesn't treat your readership with any sort of respect ... and makes it harder for them to respond in kind. As I said yesterday, this wasn't an issue with me until a staff member decided to make it an issue. It seems to me that ... as Buoyant1 pointed out ... if you want this to be a friendly board, that attitude has to begin with the staff. And simply put, there are people on your staff who don't appear interested in friendly ... unless you agree with whatever they decide to do. We're grown-ups here, Pete ... we don't need people treating us like children, or coming on with some authoritarian attitude. It's not just insulting to your readers, it is ... I am certain ... embarrassing to the more responsible members of your staff.

You really need to address it at the staff level. Or you can continue to deny that the problem exists, and assume that a certain segment of your membership is overreacting ... because at the bottom line, it's not our board ... it's your board and your call ... and you are the only one who can really do anything about it. But if you choose the latter path, then to my concern threads like this one are ill-advised ... because it's a pretense that anything we say will make a difference. So why bother?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

---------- Post added at 07:27 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:25 AM ----------

Let me turn this around and show you another way to look at it:

...this is a social forum...and the fact that there has been cause to remove the popcorn smiley (along with others) just shows that some people are way too anti-social to be here, and that these pot-stirrers need to realize that this is a discussion forum where people don't WANT to be subjected to their "Jack Merridew attitudes." That something like a smiley is used by some to let others know that their little opinion smells and has the texture of the stuff that follows a sheep (and I'm not, talking about Letterboy, either), is evidence of the sort of aggressiveness that ScubaBoard can quite happily do without.

This is true, Marcia ... and to my concern the appropriate response to anti-social behavior is to address it at the level of those who are doing it ... not by removing things that affect everybody. And even that removal could have been handled in a way that didn't create controversy. But the staff chose, instead, to treat us like children and punish all the kids for the bad behavior of a few.

That doesn't sit well with me ... or a lot of other people, I think. And still ... were it not for a "thumb your nose" gesture from a staff member, I wouldn't have had a problem with it.

Now I do ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[The Chairman]

Bob, we still don't understand the smiley incident. I have checked the logs to see who played with it, and I see nothing from yesterday. Glitch? Pretty freakin' targeted to be a glitch, but I still don't know.

 

[ScubaSteve]

There have been a couple glitches that could only be accomplished by someone with access in the last 2 or so years. No shortage of coincidence around here.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Bob, we still don't understand the smiley incident. I have checked the logs to see who played with it, and I see nothing from yesterday. Glitch? Pretty freakin' targeted to be a glitch, but I still don't know.

I think the most plausible explanation, Pete, is that someone with the permissions to change them decided to play a little game in the Whine and Cheeze thread, without considering the consequences throughout the rest of the board. Once those consequences became known, they went back and undid the little game they were playing down there.

And that's really my point ... people need to think about the effects of their moderation before they do it. This wasn't a matter of moderating someone for bad behavior ... it was a matter of making a statement. Perhaps the intent was to send a message to a targeted audience ... but it affected people way beyond that target.

With power comes a certain responsibility ... when the actions of a staff member affect members who are not doing anything wrong, it reflects badly on staff as a whole. This is why you need to do a better job of policing yourselves, and weeding out those who misuse their authority as staff members. Particularly if you want to continue billing ScubaBoard as a friendly place to be.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[The Chairman]

The message I'm taking away from the question of why this smiley disappeared ... even from you, Pete ... is "because we said so".

How much detail did you want me to go into here, Bob? We found a pattern from a certain set of smileys used in a manner that inhibited discussion rather than encouraged it. While the issue was brought to our attention by a singular use of a different smiley (not popcorn), our experience from moderating this site made us feel that it was time for a few smileys to be deleted. So far we've had a negative reaction from about 0.005% (0.00005) of our registered users concerning this smiley. I keep hearing about we are going to hell in a hand basket, and yet our continued growth seems to contradict that. People are clamoring about censorship, yet this kind of discussion is openly permitted.

The Advisors, the Mods and myself are dedicated to making this an inclusive and friendly site, even more so than it is now. While I appreciate the fact that a few think I am an idiot, I am an idiot with a vision and a hope. I want to see others learn from ScubaBoard, just as I learned from ScubaBoard. To do that, I am going to have to buck the tide a bit. No, I don't own the community: we all do. That being said, the "all" is far bigger than the few people who want the popcorn smiley back. It's my opinion that they could care less about ScubaBoard becoming more inclusive, AS LONG AS THEY GET THEIR SMILEY BACK. Do I let the wants of 10 or so people prevail over the needs of so many others? How about 20 or so? It's not about listening to them (or you) exclusively as much as it's about listening to the far greater community. To the people who won't register and post because of what they perceive to be an unfriendly environment. IOW, how close to rec.scuba do we really want to get?