Pervasive "Going Pro" Theme in New Divers

[flots am]

Scuba really is not that kind of sport either. But the agencies don't want their instructors to tell divers that they can and do die during OW training.

Death is extremely unlikely in a well run class, where the student didn't lie on the medical form.

flots.

 

[Thalassamania]

Death is extremely unlikely in a well run class, where the student didn't lie on the medical form.

flots.

Historically there are between ten and thirty deaths during instruction (amongst US Citizens, or in US waters) each year. The typical case involves a OW student who becomes separated from his or her instructor and is later found ... dead. When a good autopsy is done, the cause of death is typically an AGE. Lies on the medical form rarely have anything to do with this.

 

[Crush]

When I designed the Master Diver program for NAUI, it was with exactly the issue of this thread in mind.

It would be curious to know how disparate are your vision for this course and what this course has become.

 

[victorzamora]

One thing is that a lot of dive shops make more money on cert's than on nearly anything else. Seriously, how does an LDS make money...especially in a non-resort environment? Certifications.

On the less cynical side, maybe LDS's feel that getting DM certified will make people better divers helping people be safer in the water.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Permit me to hijack for a moment with a vision of a very different future for diving that would solve the progression issue.

I suspect that Local Dive Shops are zombies, they're still up and walking, but they are dead and just don't know it yet. The internet, FedX, UPS, Amazon, and just-in-time inventories have each put a bullet in the heart and the head of the Local Dive Shop. But there is hope ... at least for the forward thinking and adaptable. I expect that, over time, the Local Dive Shop will be replaced by a for-profit dive club, multi-sports club (who knows, diving, flying and mountain biking?), adventure sports club, any of a bunch of possibilities, each of which looks more like today's health club but that, (with respect to diving) like the old BSAC not-for-profit system, provides instruction, owns and makes available things like pools, rebreathers and even live-aboard boats but that (beyond bulk purchases for members) leaves gear sales to the internet. The actual products that are sold will be membership and facilities access, training and services, but not retail goods.

What I see is a business that is not based on the profit made from the markup on retail goods. Gear sales and training will be decoupled. Clubs will have classroom space, a lounge, pool, maybe all that is found in a health club today, there will be one or more individuals providing instruction, air, gas, equipment rental (and facilitation of big ticket items like rebreathers), equipment repairs, travel services, essentially everything that good shops try to do today less the retail dive gear component, which will be on the internet. I expect that this will raise the cost of training and the other services of the "club" but that that will be offset by the reduction through the internet of the cost of equipment.

Undoubtedly, if this concept catches on, we will see small (and maybe larger) chains of such facilities and independent clubs will group themselves into national and even international organizations to better avail themselves of things such as insurance and training materials as well as joint use facilitates such as resorts and liveaboards.

As far as instruction is concerned, it will be quite different. Think about skiing for a moment, there are professional ski instructors that make a decent living (at least during the season), they usually teach through a school that is part of the ski area. They do not sell gear, they will discuss it but they don't bring you into the overpriced shop at the base of the lift or have their feelings hurt if you go to your ski shop at home (or on the internet). Most other sports are similar, tennis, squash, golf. Sure they all have the Pro shop, but nobody seems to be bent out of shape if you choose to shop elsewhere, those shops are more for convenience and specialty items than for major purchases. The "Pros" themselves make their money by charging you based on their time and level of expertise, not by getting a payment from the facility as a "loss leader" in the hopes that you'll buy your stuff there. Different instructors get different hourly rates, based on how good they are at the game and at teaching the game. Today, dive instructors get what the shop owner is willing to pay, there's no product differentiation, in fact many of the agencies try to discourage such distinctions. You'll be able to choose between the brand new hot shot kid for less per hour than the thirty year veteran, Courses will be less the current ritual of mind numbing modules and more a matter of diving, in-club mentoring and hiring an instructor by the hour to work with you until you are ready to pass the next exam or check-dive.

end hijack

Health clubs and golf clubs also membership fees ... either monthly, annually or per use. Often those fees are significant.

Would such a model work in the scuba world? One would have to demonstrate the value over the existing approach ... something that, I think, is easier to sell in hindsight.

Somehow, the cost of maintaining such a business has to be covered by the consumer ... and, of course, a profit must be made. Pool maintenance alone can be considerably expensive ... particularly a pool built for scuba training, which will undoubtedly bear the bumps and dings of heavy scuba tanks on a regular basis.

I currently pay about $50 a month for health club membership. What would a scuba diver be willing to pay for a similar business established for scuba training? And how would you pitch it to a potential scuba student who's considering training?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

One thing is that a lot of dive shops make more money on cert's than on nearly anything else. Seriously, how does an LDS make money...especially in a non-resort environment? Certifications.

On the less cynical side, maybe LDS's feel that getting DM certified will make people better divers helping people be safer in the water.

I think more typically local dive shops don't make much money at all on certifications ... sometimes they even use training as a loss leader to bring new customers into the shop.

Let's just put some "typical" numbers on the table for a moment. A dive shop in a non-destination area might run one OW class per month. They may have an average of six students per month in that class. Let's say they charge $300 per student for the class. That's $1800 per month they're bringing in from the students. Of that, the instructor gets a third ... $600. That leaves $1200 for the dive shop. But there are other expenses associated with the class. Pool time is, around where I live, about $60 an hour. A minimally-run class is going to need about six hours of pool time ... a well-run class will use more than that, sometimes a lot more. But let's use the mimimum ... that'd run about $360 for the pool. Now the dive shop's spent $960 of the $1800 the've been paid for this class ... leaving them with $840. They have to provide equipment ... wetsuits, BCD's, regulators, tanks and weights at a minimum. All that equipment had to be purchased ... it also needs maintenance ... and equipment used for OW classes don't live a very good, or long, life. So a portion of that $960 has to be factored in for equipment maintenance and replacement costs.

At best, this dive shop's going to see a real profit on this class of maybe $750 a month. They can also make some profit on the sale of student kits ... depending on the agency, perhaps another $300 to $400 on the sale of six kits. So they're looking, at best, at less than $1200 a month real income from this class.

That's $200 per student. They'll make more money off that same student selling him the "personal gear" that's required for the class ... mask, fins, snorkel, booties and in some cases, gloves. They'll make a LOT more money off that student selling him a dive computer, regulator, BCD and wetsuit ... probably $1000 per student or more.

And that's why equipment sales is the main focus of the dive shop and training is so often used primarily as a way to get the customer into the shop where the gear sale can be made ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Getting back to the original theme for a moment ... there's another side I wanted to put on the table regarding why a new diver might want to pursue professional level training ... in particular, through divemaster.

I belong to a dive club ... and every month we get announcements about the newly-minted DM's in the dive club. Now, these are some of the nicest people I know ... and I don't want this to come across disparagingly to any of them ... but often as I read these announcements, and knowing that the diver is relatively new and not really very skilled, my visceral reaction is "why?" To my pragmatic way of thinking, this diver has wasted a lot of money getting a certification that they'll never really need nor use ... and that money would probably have been better applied toward just getting more bottom time and focusing on practical skills that aren't even emphasized in a DM class.

So why did they do it? Well, diving isn't really about pragmatism ... except perhaps to those of us who are in the business and think of it as such. What motivated these people isn't a desire to "live the dream" ... more often it's nothing more than a desire to accomplish a goal, the class provided them a path to a level of achievement ... and reaching that goal made them feel good. It gave them joy ... and isn't that why we dive in the first place?

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[flots am]

Historically there are between ten and thirty deaths during instruction (amongst US Citizens, or in US waters) each year. The typical case involves a OW student who becomes separated from his or her instructor and is later found ... dead. When a good autopsy is done, the cause of death is typically an AGE. Lies on the medical form rarely have anything to do with this.

An AGE implies a training failure(panic, breath holding, etc.), which I lump into "well run class", along with "seperated from his/her instructor".

I'd be willing you bet you haven't had any AGEs in your classes.

flots.

 

[fjpatrum]

Thalassamania, how I wish your vision would come true. Alas, I don't see it that way, at least not in the near future. I like my chosen LDS (I have a lot of options, lucky me) but I would prefer a club I could find a mentor or two and just dive. I'm not really interested in taking classes, I prefer learning by doing and classes typically don't work that way. I like the theory too but I prefer the practical.

I think Bob's explanation of the why of going pro just makes sense. People want acknowledgement of their achievements and most of us don't get that acknowledgement in other avenues of life. Diving seems like a way for people to get joy and acknowledgement at the same time.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Thalassamania, how I wish your vision would come true. Alas, I don't see it that way, at least not in the near future. I like my chosen LDS (I have a lot of options, lucky me) but I would prefer a club I could find a mentor or two and just dive. I'm not really interested in taking classes, I prefer learning by doing and classes typically don't work that way. I like the theory too but I prefer the practical.

Do they not have dive clubs in your area? There are several here that are independent of dive shops or other businesses. I pay $30 a year to be a member of the one I belong to. Among the benefits and programs is something we call the "Big Buddy" program ... where experienced divers volunteer their time to mentor less experienced ones. This is one excellent place for all those newly DM'ed divers I was referring to earlier ... they don't have to deal with the responsibility of classes and students, and do possess enough skill and experience to be helpful to someone fresh out of OW, or who doesn't dive very often, or hasn't dived in a while.

If you do belong to a dive club that doesn't have such a program, consider starting one. Not only is it a great way to help bootstrap new divers into more skills and experience, but it's a really rewarding experience for a big buddy in terms of what you'll learn by helping someone else. It's also a great way to grow the membership of your dive club.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)