Pervasive "Going Pro" Theme in New Divers

[James R]

I don't want to be an instructor particularly, but PADI has 2 educational ladders after Rescue Diver. One of the paths has one item on it, and the other has 3. Since I want to continue to learn, the longer path looks more interesting.

What type of diving interests you? Wrecks? Photography? There are tons of specialties you can take for tons of different things, but you can never be certain you will learn a great deal from taking them (ie Night Diver). At the same time, a simple specialty can really pay off (ie Navigation) - depending, of course, on the instructor and your individual efforts. I would suggest that you may want to just ignore the ladder they have all over their marketing materials, and make your own plan.

I think often it's very beneficial to also learn by doing. Learn by diving with people that have a lot of experience and don't mind sharing and helping you out. You don't have to be a card collector to gain knowledge, do you?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I don't want to be an instructor particularly, but PADI has 2 educational ladders after Rescue Diver. One of the paths has one item on it, and the other has 3. Since I want to continue to learn, the longer path looks more interesting.

That's the classic ... and wrong ... reason to pursue that ladder.

Consider that there are many ladders out there that are not PADI. Many of them offer alternatives that will offer you more value toward attaining your goals of becoming a better, safer, diver without the necessity to purchase a lot of products that you neither want nor need.

Shop around ... just like you do for all of the other products and services you buy. Different brands exist for a reason ... because no one brand can offer what best suits the needs of even a single individual, much less everyone ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Reading this thread and its comparisons to other sports has also given me another idea. Like a lot of people, I started two other sports (skiing and golf) many years ago with minimal instruction. I then tried to correct all the bad techniques I developed through classes. When I signed up for classes, I just signed up for classes. In each case, the instructor would look at me and evaluate what I needed to work on most. I would pay for those classes by the amount of time I spent in them.

Why doesn't scuba do that as well? Why does every lesson have to have a new certification level attached to it? Why can't a diver come to me and sign up for a dive experience with me for a reasonable fee? I am giving this some serious thought right now.

I do that now ... I started offering skills workshops a few months ago, and the demand has been such that I could probably spend my entire time teaching nothing else. It's very cost-effective ... because there's no student kits or certification fees involved. It's very skills-effective ... because each workshop is tailored to the needs and goals of the individual student. During the first dive, I am evaluating the student's skills and identifying how I think we could use subsequent dives to help them achieve what they've told me they want to take away from the class.

Besides being a lot of fun to teach, I'm finding that students get a lot more out of a format that's streamlined, and focuses specifically on what they want to learn rather than trying to fit their goals into a one-size-fits-all curriculum that includes a bunch of stuff they don't need.

Seems to be a market for it out there ... particularly among relatively new divers who really want a focused way to work on their fundamental skills ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Crush]

Reading this thread and its comparisons to other sports has also given me another idea. Like a lot of people, I started two other sports (skiing and golf) many years ago with minimal instruction. I then tried to correct all the bad techniques I developed through classes. When I signed up for classes, I just signed up for classes. In each case, the instructor would look at me and evaluate what I needed to work on most. I would pay for those classes by the amount of time I spent in them.

Why doesn't scuba do that as well? Why does every lesson have to have a new certification level attached to it? Why can't a diver come to me and sign up for a dive experience with me for a reasonable fee? I am giving this some serious thought right now.

I think the business model for many agencies is get them in the door with cheap prices and keep them in the system with cheap prices and limited courses that are not challenging. Badge collecting, if you will.

My personal experience is that I thought that I was real hot stuff, breezing through BOW, AOW, SRD, etc. (timeframe: 2008 to present or thereabouts). To be fair, I was progressing well and better than most in the classes. Had my experience been limited to such simple classes I might have thought that I was amazing and that being a dive professional would be a breeze.

Then, I took Fundies. I got my ass kicked. I don't think that I am hot stuff anymore, which is a bit perplexing because I am now a much better diver than I was before. It seems that, having taken a very hard course, I am closer to "knowing what I don't know."

 

[ktkt]

I don't want to be an instructor particularly, but PADI has 2 educational ladders after Rescue Diver. One of the paths has one item on it, and the other has 3. Since I want to continue to learn, the longer path looks more interesting.

Well, there's a big world outside of PADI classes.

 

[Thalassamania]

From my vantage point I think that it is muti-factorial. Most of what has been said rings true, what has not been said (and I'm only at the end of page one) is that there is little opportunity within the dominant PADI system (or most other agency systems) to really get your stuff together and become a great diver. Even Fundies and Essentials, which come really close, have the problem of being part of a, "party line," that a given student may or may not subscribe to. About the closest a student can get to it is either the NAUI Master Diver program or the CMAS Three Star or BSAC equivalent, but I suspect that there are more PADI ITCs being run than there are all three of those programs combined. Thus the best advice is often find a mentor and dive, dive, dive.

When I designed the Master Diver program for NAUI, it was with exactly the issue of this thread in mind. I wanted to kill two birds with one stone, to provide a path to high level personal diving skills for the non-techie who did not want to teach, and to also provide a path for the acquisition of the diving skills and knowledge that would provide a solid foundation for those who did want to go on and teach. In it's all consuming drive to scratch for the entry level student I am not sure that NAUI ever really did either of those concept justice.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

When I designed the Master Diver program for NAUI, it was with exactly the issue of this thread in mind. I wanted to kill two birds with one stone, to provide a path to high level personal diving skills for the non-techie who did not want to teach, and to also provide a path for the acquisition of the diving skills and knowledge that would provide a solid foundation for those who did want to go on and teach. In it's all consuming drive to scratch for the entry level student I am not sure that NAUI ever really did either of those concept justice.

I dunno ... I think it's the best class NAUI offers ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[boulderjohn]

I think the business model for many agencies is get them in the door with cheap prices and keep them in the system with cheap prices and limited courses that are not challenging. Badge collecting, if you will.

My personal experience is that I thought that I was real hot stuff, breezing through BOW, AOW, SRD, etc. (timeframe: 2008 to present or thereabouts). To be fair, I was progressing well and better than most in the classes. Had my experience been limited to such simple classes I might have thought that I was amazing and that being a dive professional would be a breeze.

Then, I took Fundies. I got my ass kicked. I don't think that I am hot stuff anymore, which is a bit perplexing because I am now a much better diver than I was before. It seems that, having taken a very hard course, I am closer to "knowing what I don't know."

My experiences talking to "management" in recent years leads me to believe that they have in mind a very distinct dividing line between standard recreational diving and tech diving. They see no reason to introduce what they see as tech skills into recreational classes. Fundies began its life as, in essence, an introduction to tech course. If you were to take an introduction to tech course from another agency, it would look a lot like Fundies.

I believe the line can and should be blurred significantly, and I am doing what I can to blur it.

 

[fjpatrum]

My point was that in my opinion you'll know when it's time to turn pro because people will start treating you like one based on your expertise and the fact that you're modeling behaviors of the type of <skier/diver/golfer/etc> that they want to be.

But by that definition right there I could and should be considering a DM/Instructor path at this very moment. With less than 20 dives... Would I be qualified? Because of my enthusiasm for my hobbies I am often seen as the "expert" whether or not that is true. I am also a "teacher" by nature so I often end up being the "instructor" for my friends who would like to try out some of these hobbies.

I think that's the issue at question here, right? Am I really able to be an instructor at this point? Should the agencies have pushed me in that direction, with the "kool aid" I described in my first post, before I even finished my OW class? I think I would likely be a decent instructor but I also have a lot to learn before I would even remotely consider it. That, however, isn't how the agency I got my OW through markets things. The TDI class I took recently (online) didn't really push for going pro but the instructors/staff in the shop where I did the practical portion definitely made mention of it a couple of times. I recognize I'm a "hot stuff" newb, though, (and don't have time to commit that type of investment even if I didn't realize it) so I'm in no hurry to go that direction.

 

[mathauck0814]

But by that definition right there I could and should be considering a DM/Instructor path at this very moment.

Ok - let me amend my statement as such:

My point was that in my opinion you'll know when it's time to turn pro because people who you respect as a <skier/diver/golfer/etc> will start treating you like one based on your expertise and the fact that you're modeling behaviors of the type of <skier/diver/golfer/etc> that they want to be.​