Pervasive "Going Pro" Theme in New Divers

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Reading this thread and its comparisons to other sports has also given me another idea. Like a lot of people, I started two other sports (skiing and golf) many years ago with minimal instruction. I then tried to correct all the bad techniques I developed through classes. When I signed up for classes, I just signed up for classes. In each case, the instructor would look at me and evaluate what I needed to work on most. I would pay for those classes by the amount of time I spent in them.

Why doesn't scuba do that as well? Why does every lesson have to have a new certification level attached to it? Why can't a diver come to me and sign up for a dive experience with me for a reasonable fee? I am giving this some serious thought right now.
I do this quite a lot. One of my recent customers wrote a post in this thread about coming to dive with me: http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/th...about-them-again-please-read.html#post6234906
... because of my limited experience, i chose to stay a few days before the trip's departure in chalong and do a few guided dives with marcia. it was a good call. in addition to being a great guide she gave me some very helpful and timely private instruction, and it went a long way to making the liveaboard a success... - rc

I've got an entry-level student booked in for the month of August who has only weekends for diving while he's on the island for other reasons. We talked about various options to get him certified and gain experience. The final conclusion is that he will be certified at home in the US and then come to me for "coaching" dives, paid by the session. He may also undertake the AOW course while he's here. So we'll have I guess five weekends of diving with at most one course and lots of coaching dives.
 
My point was that in my opinion you'll know when it's time to turn pro because people who you respect as a <skier/diver/golfer/etc> will start treating you like one based on your expertise and the fact that you're modeling behaviors of the type of <skier/diver/golfer/etc> that they want to be.
No, I disagree with that. I actually very much respect the sentiment. And, if we worked in a guild system, with apprentices who worked until the master decided they were 'ready', I might actually agree. But, that is simply not the case in most forms of endeavor in 2012.

DA provided the aviation analogy earlier, referring to the known 'zones of risk' of pilots. I agree with that, although I think the statistics suggest the starting point of the first zone is a bit lower - 150 hours, rather than 250. What he didn't mention was the average flight time accrued by most pilots who pursue CFI (Certificated Flight Instructor) status. And, it is low-w-w-w-w. Even in the military, the flight instructors are, for the most part, young (technically proficient) hotshots. Getting the grizzled veteran, aged 55, is just not the usual and customary case - in flying, diving, skydiving, or elementary education (the list goes on, so I will stop here).

The goal in teaching anything - diving, flying, elementary education - is to teach by the process. You don't necessarily have to have, nor is there anyway to quantify, the substance of 'experience', EXCEPT for checking the boxes on number of hours / dives / jumps / courses / whatever that you have. Sorry to say, that is reality nothwithstanding our concerns about it. Frankly, in more than a few cases, I might prefer to have a competent teacher over a grizzled veteran who is an incompetent teacher. I have seen too many mature university faculty - brilliant investigators, perhaps - completely turn students off (to their profession AND to learning anything more than what was required to pass examinations) with their incompetent style. But, that is reality, not the 'hoped for' universe. And, it isn't going to change.

The reason that is the case is fairly simple. Quantifying the number of hours / dives / jumps is objective (or reasonably so). Quantifying the substance of 'experience' is not.

Plus, younger is cheaper.
 
...there are a lot more places that you can go from the level of "rescue diver" than they represent in their copy.

Here's another agency's take on things: IANTD Course Flowchart

Cool! So I've done OW and AOW, and will complete Rescue Diver next month. Others I'm interested in doing are Nitrox Diver, Cavern/Wreck Diver. That's pretty much it.

But I think there are a whole lot of others which are not on the way toward anything, just added skills--photography, for example.
 
What type of diving interests you? Wrecks? Photography? There are tons of specialties you can take for tons of different things, but you can never be certain you will learn a great deal from taking them (ie Night Diver). At the same time, a simple specialty can really pay off (ie Navigation) - depending, of course, on the instructor and your individual efforts. I would suggest that you may want to just ignore the ladder they have all over their marketing materials, and make your own plan.

I am beginning to understand! So you can add skills without climbing a ladder. Especially since the ladder leads to becoming an instructor, which isn't necessarily what I should be doing.

I think often it's very beneficial to also learn by doing. Learn by diving with people that have a lot of experience and don't mind sharing and helping you out. You don't have to be a card collector to gain knowledge, do you?

Well, I really like those cards!
 
Cool! So I've done OW and AOW, and will complete Rescue Diver next month. Others I'm interested in doing are Nitrox Diver, Cavern/Wreck Diver. That's pretty much it.

There's no reason you should even be looking that far ahead at this point. If you're approaching Rescue with 0-24 dives, I seriously question the number of times you've donned a tank for any reason other than training!

Take the money you are currently thinking about spending on more specialty training and go diving. Sure, get rescue and Nitrox certified - those will make you a safer and better diver. But seriously, you've got at least 10x as many posts on this board as you do dives - and you live in a coastal state! Get out there and dive.

Every single course I took after open water was directly because there was a (specific) dive or set of dives I wanted to do that I wasn't qualified for - and usually because I was chasing my friends who were better/more qualified than I was. You've got SO MUCH that you can be out there learning just by doing. It's called getting mileage. Most of the concepts on that IANTD course map SHOULDN'T appeal to you right now. You've barely even got your toes wet.
 
a lot here rings true to me.

My own path has been long and winding. OW in 1988, AOW in 1989 .....<long period of vacation only diving > ........ rescue in 2010.....
when i got back into the sport in a serious way i fell in love with it all over again. What got me thinking about the pro path was a long talk with an instructor in Kona Hi over the course of several boat dives. Working in the industry as a full time gig is not an option right now, but maybe late when i don't need to support a family. I have no illusions about the industry and the output not equaling the inputs.
But, i am still following the PADI path to instructor, because i like mentoring and teaching.

My own plan for personal development is somewhat off the PADI track (i post in another forum here mainly), I've formed a FB group for local team oriented divers (modeled off of NWUE) in order to foster a local group of like minded divers with whom i can dive with locally and off shore here that i trust with my life. I'm now enroled in a local shops DM program (which thankfully still has an extensive internship program which i think is the most valuable part)

Do i think i'm advancing too fast, sometimes yes.... Do i think i'm hot ****..... No
I took fundies.... I saw each and every issue on video...
I'm going back for more friday ....

I think i'll get a lot out of the DM class as well. At least i'll know if working with students is something i really want to do.

My advice to people reading this is... Go Slow and keep learning
 
I am beginning to understand! So you can add skills without climbing a ladder. Especially since the ladder leads to becoming an instructor, which isn't necessarily what I should be doing.
Your getting it Matt, there are no ladders in diving 'cause you don't need them with good buoyancy control. Figure out what you enjoy doing underwater and get good at it. There are divers, books, classes, and ScubaBoard to help you along the way.

Well, I really like those cards!
I can sell you mine. Would you like to pay for my whole experience or just the card?:D



Bob
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It is necessary for us to learn from others' mistakes. You will not live long enough to make them all yourself.
Hyman G. Rickover
 
What Bob is saying is spot on, he neglects to tell you, however, that you are not only buying his whole experience, but also a goodly chunk of the experience of each and every one of the people he's learned from over the decades. You don't need no stinkin' card. And if you do, we all have lots of them that you can have, some come with patches. When new divers break out in patches we call that disease, "emblemism."
 
Permit me to hijack for a moment with a vision of a very different future for diving that would solve the progression issue.

I suspect that Local Dive Shops are zombies, they're still up and walking, but they are dead and just don't know it yet. The internet, FedX, UPS, Amazon, and just-in-time inventories have each put a bullet in the heart and the head of the Local Dive Shop. But there is hope ... at least for the forward thinking and adaptable. I expect that, over time, the Local Dive Shop will be replaced by a for-profit dive club, multi-sports club (who knows, diving, flying and mountain biking?), adventure sports club, any of a bunch of possibilities, each of which looks more like today's health club but that, (with respect to diving) like the old BSAC not-for-profit system, provides instruction, owns and makes available things like pools, rebreathers and even live-aboard boats but that (beyond bulk purchases for members) leaves gear sales to the internet. The actual products that are sold will be membership and facilities access, training and services, but not retail goods.

What I see is a business that is not based on the profit made from the markup on retail goods. Gear sales and training will be decoupled. Clubs will have classroom space, a lounge, pool, maybe all that is found in a health club today, there will be one or more individuals providing instruction, air, gas, equipment rental (and facilitation of big ticket items like rebreathers), equipment repairs, travel services, essentially everything that good shops try to do today less the retail dive gear component, which will be on the internet. I expect that this will raise the cost of training and the other services of the "club" but that that will be offset by the reduction through the internet of the cost of equipment.

Undoubtedly, if this concept catches on, we will see small (and maybe larger) chains of such facilities and independent clubs will group themselves into national and even international organizations to better avail themselves of things such as insurance and training materials as well as joint use facilitates such as resorts and liveaboards.

As far as instruction is concerned, it will be quite different. Think about skiing for a moment, there are professional ski instructors that make a decent living (at least during the season), they usually teach through a school that is part of the ski area. They do not sell gear, they will discuss it but they don't bring you into the overpriced shop at the base of the lift or have their feelings hurt if you go to your ski shop at home (or on the internet). Most other sports are similar, tennis, squash, golf. Sure they all have the Pro shop, but nobody seems to be bent out of shape if you choose to shop elsewhere, those shops are more for convenience and specialty items than for major purchases. The "Pros" themselves make their money by charging you based on their time and level of expertise, not by getting a payment from the facility as a "loss leader" in the hopes that you'll buy your stuff there. Different instructors get different hourly rates, based on how good they are at the game and at teaching the game. Today, dive instructors get what the shop owner is willing to pay, there's no product differentiation, in fact many of the agencies try to discourage such distinctions. You'll be able to choose between the brand new hot shot kid for less per hour than the thirty year veteran, Courses will be less the current ritual of mind numbing modules and more a matter of diving, in-club mentoring and hiring an instructor by the hour to work with you until you are ready to pass the next exam or check-dive.

end hijack
 

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