Pervasive "Going Pro" Theme in New Divers

[bleeb]

I wonder if all fatalities are reported to DAN. I know of three fatalities under instruction within the last few years here in the Seattle area. One was a young woman in an OW class who disappeared coming back to shore. She was never found, so cause of death is unknown. Another occurred during a buddy separation, and I believe that was signed out as drowning. A third occurred here a week and a half ago (AOW class) and cause of death is so far unknown, but the accident involved a rapid ascent and buddy separation.

I've also wondered how good their numbers are. From what they've published, DAN relies on their own insurance and news reports. I get the impression that DAN membership only covers a tiny minority of divers, especially among infrequent/warm water vacation divers (<5% was once thrown around in one A&I thread), so news reports, public submissions or word of mouth would have to be their main sources of data. OTOH over the years, a few different people in the insurance industry have posted on ScubaBoard with suggestions that their actuarial estimates are of between 500 and 800 fatalities a year IIRC. There's a big difference between the two, so if would be interesting to find out which is closer to the truth.

 

[spectrum]

OTOH over the years, a few different people in the insurance industry have posted on ScubaBoard with suggestions that their actuarial estimates are of between 500 and 800 fatalities a year IIRC. There's a big difference between the two, so if would be interesting to find out which is closer to the truth.

And which are truly diving related.

 

[boulderjohn]

I wonder if all fatalities are reported to DAN. I know of three fatalities under instruction within the last few years here in the Seattle area. One was a young woman in an OW class who disappeared coming back to shore. She was never found, so cause of death is unknown. Another occurred during a buddy separation, and I believe that was signed out as drowning. A third occurred here a week and a half ago (AOW class) and cause of death is so far unknown, but the accident involved a rapid ascent and buddy separation.

If you read the report, they describe their information gathering techniques. It takes several years to put together a report, so the ones you describe would not be included in their most recent reports.

If anyone has a better source, it would be good to post it here.

 

[tech_diver]

800 fatalities a year!

That would be a dozen people dying every week from scuba diving.

I seriously doubt that the Scubaboard community wouldn't know about a conspiracy of that magnitude.
Unless...
Unless, they were part of it!

*looks suspiciously at the mods*

 

[vcblklion]

I think this is an interesting thread but I'm a little put off by the eliteist attitude some of you guys have about people who are starting out as if they are babes in the woods without a clue about what they want to do. "Newbies"? reall? Why the label? I'm new at this. I've put off diving half my life because I always though it was too expensive for me. I've wanted to be a diver ever since my mother forced us to wathc Jacque Cousteau on tv in the 60s and 70s. Once I started diving I knew that at some point I would like to have a retirement career that I love because social security and a pension just won't cut it. Will being a DM do it?....from listening to you guys nobody should get involved in diving instructing because there is no money in it. So why should I bother? I had a dream that when I retire I'd like to buy a boat and work out of an exotic resort doing scuba and fishing charters. Part of getting to that goal pushed me to getting certified and pursuing a DM/Instructor certification......and yes.....I only have 24 dives......go ahead guys.....let the insults fly....

 

[tomfcrist]

The question is "what's A LOT?" To us newbs 100-200 dives IS a lot. People with that many dives are "old pros". With less than 20 dives I have more variance to my dives than all the instabuddies I have had except one and he only has 20 or so more dives than I do. Everyone else has had significantly more "experience" with the same type of dives but absolutely no variance to the type of dive. Which of us is more qualified? The one with more dives or the one with more variance? (My argument would be neither... at this point)

Well, 100-200 dives could be ALOT, and i believe the minimum requirements to be certified as and instructor is in that range for most agencies. If you have less than 20 dives i wouldnt even teach you an advanced class.....the agency that i teach for allows me to make that choice, and i dont need the money bad enough to drop you 120' down on a NC wreck when i promise you arent ready for it.....you may think you are, but sorry your not. As a matter of fact, most dive operators wont even take you on an offshore trip around my neck of the woods with less than 20 dives. Dont take this as an attack on you personally, although it may come across that way my only intention is to answer your question as honestly as i can.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Well, 100-200 dives could be ALOT, and i believe the minimum requirements to be certified as and instructor is in that range for most agencies. If you have less than 20 dives i wouldnt even teach you an advanced class.....the agency that i teach for allows me to make that choice, and i dont need the money bad enough to drop you 120' down on a NC wreck when i promise you arent ready for it.....you may think you are, but sorry your not. As a matter of fact, most dive operators wont even take you on an offshore trip around my neck of the woods with less than 20 dives. Dont take this as an attack on you personally, although it may come across that way my only intention is to answer your question as honestly as i can.

Most agencies require a minimum of 100 dives ... which is not all that many for developing to the point where you have a pretty solid skills/knowledge base. My OW instructor suggested that the average diver needs about 50 dives just to start feeling comfortable in the water. Now, granted, he was talking about cold water diving ... but I find that a reasonable statement.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I think this is an interesting thread but I'm a little put off by the eliteist attitude some of you guys have about people who are starting out as if they are babes in the woods without a clue about what they want to do. "Newbies"? reall? Why the label? I'm new at this. I've put off diving half my life because I always though it was too expensive for me. I've wanted to be a diver ever since my mother forced us to wathc Jacque Cousteau on tv in the 60s and 70s. Once I started diving I knew that at some point I would like to have a retirement career that I love because social security and a pension just won't cut it. Will being a DM do it?....from listening to you guys nobody should get involved in diving instructing because there is no money in it. So why should I bother? I had a dream that when I retire I'd like to buy a boat and work out of an exotic resort doing scuba and fishing charters. Part of getting to that goal pushed me to getting certified and pursuing a DM/Instructor certification......and yes.....I only have 24 dives......go ahead guys.....let the insults fly....

... the term "newbies" is not ... and was never intended to be ... a derogatory term. It's simply a designation of someone who's new to diving ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[smellzlikefish]

vcb-I may have missed it, but I don't see insults flying here. You're still young in your diving career. My advice to you mirrors what others have said. Dive because you enjoy it and take the time to find out what you like to do underwater. I seem to recall something about a cart and a horse. Learn the basic skills, master the advanced skills, gain some real, varied experiences to share with others, bump elbows with those you admire in the profession, then start thinking about becoming a pro.

I had a similar dream rattling around the back of my head once that was abruptly squashed when I realized that I despise herding "newbie" divers around underwater. No offense meant. We've all been there, but for me, new divers just aren't qualified to do the dives I want to do. I think the key here is be honest with yourself. We all want to do the Jacques thing because he did some amazing things, but I'm afraid you'll quickly find that dive-mastering aint it.

 

[Lorenzoid]

How many times a week do we come across the "0-24 Dive" divers who are looking for advice on equipment, courses, etc. in their grand pursuit of becoming a DM/Instructor/DiveGod? I'm curious what about the scuba industry engenders this.

I was a ski instructor, racer, race coach, instructor trainer and alpine guide for over a decade and I never saw the beginners (or frankly, many students) who wanted to become instructors in that sport. Hell, we couldn't even talk the qualified professionals into to coaching anyone.

Is it PADI's marketing or the instructor's push to build a culture of continuing education?

Where else does this exist in the "action sports" world?

Ski instructor is different from scuba instructor because, as far as I know, a ski instructor credential is not at the end of a progression of other "levels" that some agency has created. PADI presents the world of scuba diving not as a binary world of "diver" and "professional" but as a progression of levels. A better analogy might be martial arts, where students start as novices and work their way up to black belts or whatever. And that's the reason I believe novice divers feel drawn toward "going pro." A "professional" level certification from PADI or other agency is presented to novices like it's the "black belt" of diving--the terminal level of a natural progression.