Accident at Vortex Springs 8-20-10

[Mark Michaud SELAUSAR]

How often do people go to the gate? Would something like this not have been noticed? Or would people assume it was a makeshift hinge? I cant imagine someone taking a chain and lock diving with them and rigging up the secure gate like that.

The gate was secured by three small lengths of chain. Two on the left that were bolted together. Those were the hinges. In 2000 (or around that time) I put those, or ones like it, there at the request of Danny and Mr Vic. The chain on the right is used to secure it with a lock. It would be very easy to unbolt the chains and place locks on the backside and out of sight. Most of us that dive it may just think it was done as an additional safety factor by Vortex. It is fairly crude, but works for the most part. Maybe that will shed some clarity on this issue.

 

[Divedoggie]

For those familiar with Vortex:
Are there any high ceilings or cracks close to the cave entrance or in the cavern area where a positively buoyant diver could be pinned? I wonder if the underside of the docks have been checked.
Its possible in a panic that he nearly found his way out but was either OOG, blew deco, or attempted a buoyant ascent.

 

[Meister481]

For those familiar with Vortex:
Are there any high ceilings or cracks close to the cave entrance or in the cavern area where a positively buoyant diver could be pinned? I wonder if the underside of the docks have been checked.
Its possible in a panic that he nearly found his way out but was either OOG, blew deco, or attempted a buoyant ascent.

There are a million places he COULD be, but the main focus is in the back of the cave. They've checked the area very well, they are professionals. The search outside the cave continues as well.


Oh, and....

This message is hidden because Salient is on your ignore list.

Enjoy.

 

[wjefferis]

however there was at least one person on site when the accident scene started as evidenced by the very first posting on the other forum. The poster clearly states, without hesitation and as a first party witness, the following: "Just then the new owner operator lady started talking and she stated the key to the gate was checked out on Wednesday by a male and it was never returned" It is implied that she has made this statement to a deputy sheriff, if so it is now a matter of public record and I will be filing to have the report sent to me straight away.

This overlooked fact is important for surely it speaks to the character of the person. It is one thing to overestimate one’s ability, but it is another matter altogether to willfully break the gate and enter anyway. If Ben checked the key out then obviously his intent was to enter and enter in the proper procedural way, if he lacked proper experience to do so then he should not have been given the key. If he forced the lock, this accident is then and only then what most of you have stated.

Having now read all posts by the original witness/first poster, I do not believe he has a propensity to embellish nor willfully lie therefore I for one believe what he has said, further at the time of his posting he was first on scene before any facts were known therefore there would have been no need or thought to cover up the fact that Ben legitimately checked the key out. Fast forward to now and there certainly would be a reason to cover this up as a man with no proper certification should not have been allowed to do so and in doing so negligence by the owner of the spring has been established.

I am glad that you posted about this as I was going to comment on this when I read that he had apparently "jimmied" the gate open. When I first heard this it didn't make sense, but the more I thought about it and put into the context of the timeline of events I think I may know what could of happened (only my personal theory). They most likely did misplace the gate key and could not find it when I was in the shop. They must have found the key (speculation), but in the process of figuring out where the key was they must have figured out that they still had a diver in the water. This could have been from the realization that the deceased vehicle had been there since Wednesday or some other reason (no clue how they figured the diver was missing). At that point they must have called 911 and activated the emegency response I saw arrive within a very short amount of time after I left the shop and was starting to gear up (approx 10 to 20 minutes max).

I have nothing but confidence in the comments of the divers who have assisted in the recovery and posted on this thread as I know two of them. If they say that the lock/gate was compromised then that is what happened. I would like to know exactly how. I am sure this will be in the official report. These divers don't work for Vortex and wouldn't give a rats a$$ if their report showed that Vortex was totally at fault if in fact they were. If the physical evidence is truely there as they say it is I think it is irrefrutable evidence that the blame rests soley on the deceased. I know that this may be hard to take.

I talked very briefly with a deputy on scene, but there was no "official record." So I would not suppose there would be much (if any) comments on record. I would imagine that the deputy put in his report that a diver (the solo diver I talked with as I was gearing up) saw the deco bottle staged near the cave entrance and that the gate was open. ****Even this is a total guess as I haven't seen the report or know what is in it. ****

I can tell from your very upset tone in your post that this thread has upset you. This is why it has been said many times during this thread that family members and loved ones should not read this thread. I am sorry for your loss.

 

[Salient]

I am glad that you posted about this as I was going to comment on this when I read that he had apparently "jimmied" the gate open. When I first heard this it didn't make sense, but the more I thought about it and put into the context of the timeline of events I think I may know what could of happened (only my personal theory). They most likely did misplace the gate key and could not find it when I was in the shop. They must have found the key (speculation), but in the process of figuring out where the key was they must have figured out that they still had a diver in the water. This could have been from the realization that the deceased vehicle had been there since Wednesday or some other reason (no clue how they figured the diver was missing). At that point they must have called 911 and activated the emegency response I saw arrive within a very short amount of time after I left the shop and was starting to gear up (approx 10 to 20 minutes max).

I have nothing but confidence in the comments of the divers who have assisted in the recovery and posted on this thread as I know two of them. If they say that the lock/gate was compromised then that is what happened. I would like to know exactly how. I am sure this will be in the official report. These divers don't work for Vortex and wouldn't give a rats a$$ if their report showed that Vortex was totally at fault if in fact they were. If the physical evidence is truely there as they say it is I think it is irrefrutable evidence that the blame rests soley on the deceased. I know that this may be hard to take.

I talked very briefly with a deputy on scene, but there was no "official record." So I would not suppose there would be much (if any) comments on record. I would imagine that the deputy put in his report that a diver (the solo diver I talked with as I was gearing up) saw the deco bottle staged near the cave entrance and that the gate was open. ****Even this is a total guess as I haven't seen the report or know what is in it. ****

I can tell from your very upset tone in your post that this thread has upset you. This is why it has been said many times during this thread that family members and loved ones should not read this thread. I am sorry for your loss.

Thanks so much for clearing that up. I have now talked to several people on scene and have gotten a clearer understanding of what is going on, but thanks again anyway for your comment. It is appreciated.

 

[Crush]

You have been diving since 2008 and you don't live in Florida. You quote Einstein essentially showing you cannot originate an intelligent thought of your own. Who exactly are you that you think you have the right to call people who care about this man fools, and by proxy at that?

Einstein said it with much more eloquence than I could have managed. Rather than dilute his sentiment so as to call it my own, I quoted him and gave appropriate credit.

Please feel free to PM me - I can send you my cv, my list of peer-reviewed publications (evidence of original thought), and transcripts from the three universities from which I have graduated.

To be clear, I did not refer to Ben's friends as fools. My comment referred to the fact that it is usually easier to defeat a system (such as a locked gate) than it is to implement such a system in the first place. The fool-proof (e.g., locked gate) fails when attacked by a sufficiently talented fool.

PS: I have dived in Florida. Beautiful state, beautiful caves.

 

[wjefferis]

Thanks so much for clearing that up. I have now talked to several people on scene and have gotten a clearer understanding of what is going on, but thanks again anyway for your comment. It is appreciated.

I do want to state however that the manager lady (Diane) who came over as I was talking to the deputy made the spontaneous utterance that the key had been checked out since Wednesday. I know this because my heart sank when I heard it. Now she might have been mistaken at that point and found the key a short time later (speculation). I do know however that it was said.

 

[pattidives]

First, I find it unfortunate that the thread is turning angry. To those family and friends who are reading the posts please do not attack people who are trying to prevent this from happening to another person. It is a horrible situation, and one we can all sympathize with. However, this is an event that makes us all look bad, recreational and technical. We are not trying to be harsh.

His dive plan was posted on his Facebook profile. Like I said before, it was posted for a Monday dive. I'm not sure if that means he has done this particular dive before or if something come up for him to push it back to Wed. If the plan was accurate is was definitely one that I would never want to attempt especially not in a wetsuit.

"Mondays 8 tank deep penetration solo dive. I will post something on it later. To sum it up... 4 stage, 2 bottom, and 2 deco bottles for a 232 minute 148 ft deep cave dive with a total penetration to the end of system at aprox. 810 ft!!!!"

Hopefully this will help provide some info. Though I have neve been into the cave, I'm told his numbers were not correct.

 

[wjefferis]

As I posted earlier in the thread cave diving only has five rules (page 11 on this thread). When a cave diving fatality occurs usually one or more of these rules have been broken (as in this case). So far it appears that the deceased violated:

1. Failure to be properly trained or exceeding the level and limits of one’s training. (A major contributing cause of cave and cavern diving fatalities).

2. Exceeding the maximum depth limits for your level of training or the complications of depth (increased breathing gas usage); maximium depth limit for cavern or basic cave is 100 feet, and 130 for any other recreational cave diving activity. Also exceeding the Maximum Operation Depth (MOD) of the gas used. (The third most common direct cause of cave and cavern diving fatalities.)


It is unclear so far from the posts (since it has not been posted yet) if the deceased violated any of the other three rules: using a continuous guidline to open water, reserved at least two-thirds of the beginning air supply for exiting the cave (may never be known), or if he used at least three lights.

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

All the keys were accounted for at Vortex, I saw them myself.

I don't think the dive team today were local divers.

Actually, the diver who dove today, was more local than any of the divers who were there on Friday/Saturday aside from Jeff.