Diver dies in Islamorada

[Jim Lapenta]

There are times though and this seems like one of them that the DM would have been more use on the boat than in the water. My trips to the keys have been on boats where there are no guides and that is how I want it. I would not like to be responsible for keeping the boat secure, getting divers in and out of the water, and be ready to respond to problems alone. Especially in rough or rougher seas.

 

[Mike Boswell]

The only thing we know is that the story said they went to FL for their AOW. We don't know if they were still in training, or not.

I agree there is much we don't know, we are all speculating based on what we have read, and what we have read may in fact be wrong.

I would only point out that the articles state that they went to Florida to get their AOW certification, and that they were with an instuctor on that particular dive.

"A 51-year-old Arizona woman became the Keys' third diving death of the year Thursday offshore of Islamorada. ##### of Surprise, Ariz., was with her husband, diving off the vessel 'Giant Stride' operated by Key Dives from Bud 'n Mary’s Marina. The couple and a group of other divers were with an instructor on the 'Eagle' wreck."

"The Diodatos are long-time Arizona residents who love the water. They had returned to the Florida Keys this week for advanced open water dive training."

As to the "Hard bottom limit", I am clueless, will somebody please enlighten me?

 

[Jax]

Dude . . . I trust not the news hounds. That they were with someone more advanced, I argue not. That they went there for AOW, I argue not.

However, were they done with their AOW? Only if the husband tells us so, or not.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Although is not my wish to opine on the events of that particular day, I have done the Eagle on many occasions with Key Dives and can personally attest to the following:

1. They are a very professional outfit, all their DM are instructors.
2. They are only one of a couple of shops that actually send a DM guide with each group of six divers. This is important to me and the reason I frequent Key Dives as I dive alone and do not care for insta-buddies.
3. The Eagle is an AOW dive and they are meticulous about this. They do not take students (or at least I have never seen them do) to the Eagle.
4. When they do the Eagle, they moor the boat to one of two buoys that are directly anchored to the Eagle. They always extend a granny line from the buoy to the stern of the boat, and divers are instructed to use the granny line to move from the stern to the bow (and back). They also always throw a line from the stern. Divers are instructed to hold to the line, inflate the BC and remove their fins as they approach the ladder, keeping regulators and mask in place.
5. Key Dives is not shy about canceling a dive if conditions are not appropriate or scratching the Eagle if the current is too strong.
6. The boat is equipped with DAN oxygen.

I would assume:
1. This was not a class, and that the diver had completed her AOW prior to this dive.
2. The instructor was guiding the dive, and not instructing.
3. As the husband indicated, the diver gave the OK signal and was holding to the line, therefore it was appropriate for the DM to go back to the group which at this time would have been on their way down or already waiting at the wreck for the guide.4. It would seem that there was only one DM and therefore the group was 6 or less. Therefore, on this particular outing it would seem that it was just the captain and the DM.
5. It is common safe practice that when a diver(s) drift, usually due to surfacing away from the boat or from strong currents, is to get all divers aboard before picking up the drifters.
6. It is not known from what i have read whether there was any indication of distress.
7. Whether the dive is guided or not, your buddy is still your buddy.

I disagree with the underlined, bolded statement. If a customer bails on a dive from a depth of only 10-20 feet and I accompany her to the stern in rough conditions, I would NOT leave her until she was safely on the vessel. EXITING THE WATER IS DANGEROUS!!!!!

The fact that she gave an OK is NOT good enough in my book. If I have a "problem customer" I am taking control of the situation and I will not relinquish control until another capable crew member has assumed that ROLE or the customer is safe on the deck or on land. Having the capt on the back deck all by himself, is not what i consider a crew mwmber in control of the situation.

 

[yupito]

The fact that she gave an OK is NOT good enough in my book. If I have a "problem customer" I am taking control of the situation and I will not relinquish control until another capable crew member has assumed that roll or the customer is safe on the deck or on land. Having the capt on the back deck all by himself, is not what i consider a crew mwmber in control of the situation.

This was perhaps a judgment call made by the DM/guide, probably based on the fact that he/she had some familiarity with the diver's expertise level from previous days and/or trips. All I am saying is that this is a reputable shop with high standards, and that the staff is qualified. If this was a lapse, it would not be due to lack of training or expertise, and personally, without knowing further details, would tend to give them the benefit of the doubt.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

This was perhaps a judgment call made by the DM/guide, probably based on the fact that he/she had some familiarity with the diver's expertise level from previous days and/or trips. All I am saying is that this is a reputable shop with high standards, and that the staff is qualified. If this was a lapse, it would not be due to lack of training or expertise, and personally, without knowing further details, would tend to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I agree, I have no idea what REALLY happened. My posts have been about how things should be conducted in my opinion and how I personally would respond in a situation that was similar to what was reported in the newspaper.

I'm repeating myself here, but in my opinion, a well run charter boat with high standards, leaves 2 crew on board, especailly on an anchor dive.

Maybe 30 yrs ago I dove from an anchored charter boat in very rough conditions in the keys and a female diver got way behind the boat and when I got on board I heard her screaming and she was hundreds of feet away. The capt was alone, and i wanted to swim to her, but since I was a customer and not a dive professional, he said no. We yelled and screamed for her to swim to the very long floatline, that we extended further out during the emrgency.

She finally made it to the very end and was able to cling to the rope, because the floatball was behind her. It was very strenuous for 2-3 of us to haul her back to the boat against the current and when she finally arrived she was pretty blue, entirely incapaitated and was dead weight when we laid her on the deck. She spent a few days in the hospital with water in her lungs,, a near drowning. I've personally seen many problems develop behind the boat since then.

 

[JonKranhouse]

I question the industry's "standards of care" that would allow a 42-foot boat to operate with insufficient deck crew to perform a rescue. Raising such questions do not impugn the dive shop or boat crew. Just because this practice has become "tradition" in Florida does not make it "best practice."

PADI's Discover Scuba program, to the great consternation of many PADI instructors and course directors, used to forbid teaching participants how to control their buoyancy. It took PADI's insurance underwriter making TWO payouts for separate accidents - first when Dennis Claypool lost the use of one arm, then a few years later after Anne Jordan died (her death was a central topic of Rick Lesser's risk management seminar at last year's DEMA show), before PADI changed their DSD standard.

I hate excess regulations, whether governmental or within private industry. But it seems there's a gap, which puts 100% of the responsibility on the shoulders of the DM to make a judgement call. Then if things go badly, does the industry circle its wagons and try to put 100% of the blame on the instructor / DM who is forced to work within this "tradition?"

 

[Jim Lapenta]

Disclaimer . . . no expert here with my 80ish dives, but would like to put a thought forward to those who question that her husband-buddy didn't accompany her.

I have a standing agreement with my husband-buddy that if I start a dive, and find it isn't going to 'work' for me (never mind the reasons), he goes on with the group if I thumb the dive.

Let's guess that Mrs D wasn't feeling well . . . Most women don't know women's symptions for heart attack, for example. She might have told her buddy, "I'm not feeling well. I'm going to try it, but if I don't feel comfortable, I'm coming back to the boat and you go on with the group."

So, don't be so quick to point out the buddy wasn't with her, as none of us have info on their communications and understandings.

Somehow I missed this post yesterday but will address it now in relation to this incident. If you are fine with this arrangement all well and good. I personally would not be. If you are diving with a buddy and decide to end the dive the dive is over for you and your buddy until you are safely on the boat or on shore. If he should elect to continue the dive solo fine. But too many incidents have occurred when buddies get separated in benign conditions that have resulted in dead divers to risk it. And I never feel safe with "the group" because chances are unless I know them none of them are worth a squat if I have a problem.

I do know that if a Dm/Guide/Instructor is leading a dive and CHOOSES to escort a diver to the surface it then becomes more than just seeing them to the boat. Her buddy could and should have accompanied her, which by the way would have been the right thing to do. Then the instructor and the buddy could have continued the dive once the diver who was having difficulties was safely on board. This is one of the results of the discussion of always diving with a buddy but is seldom put into practice in OW classes. How many of you have seen divers being led around single file or in a group and have no idea who was buddied up with who? I'd bet most of you have.

My classes require buddies to stay together at all times from the first night in the pool swimming and snorkeling. If somebody gets a little carried away and thinks the swim is a race and laps their assigned buddy gues who is going to get back with their buddy and do an extra lap or two as a penalty for leaving their buddy. I don't give rat's butt if the DM/ Guide/ Whatever says it's ok I'll take him/her back you do not leave your buddy if you are truly diving as buddies. I do dive solo. Alot. But when I am with someone I am with them from the time we get into the water until we get out. Because it is that one time when everything seems ok that you say you're going up and will be fine that they turn bad in a second and he is now a widower. Not worth it.

Otherwise it is an agreed upon same ocean/lake/ quarry dive where we will meet up at such and such a time and are solely responsible for ourselves. That the instructor in this case did not make sure the diver was safely on the boat in those condtions, especially if there was only one other person the boat, is irresponsible and inexcusable. If there was more than one person on the boat and that person was not prepared, trained, or equipped to assist a diver who was having trouble at the surface while others were in the water is also irresponsible and inexcusable.

Divers should be able to take care of themselves. But if a situation arises where one cannot they have a right to expect that someone who is in a position to help will help. If this was not the case then the crew should have told everyone before going out that if they get in trouble to not expect any assistance. I would not have gone out in those conditions with only one person left on the boat. Calm, flat seas with no wind- OK.

But where there are 5-7 ft seas I would expect that if I surfaced and got into trouble there would at least be someone to toss me a line or assist me to the trail line. And again had her buddy done the right thing and stayed with her he may have been able to assist. This was a CF big time. Piss poor buddy procedures, lack of judgment on everyone's part, most likely insufficient training for this dive in these conditions, and on and on. As a result someone is dead. Again. And it did not have to happen.

I'd like to know why the instructor/guide thought it was ok to separate the buddies in a situation like this. It could have been a valuable lesson in proper buddy procedures and dive planning. Instead it is a lesson in funeral planning.

 

[widget]

In my opinion accidents usually occur due to a series of issues, and not just one single isolated incident.

From what I can gather, it would appear the diver had a number of issues to deal with as follows -
1)An underwater issue at shallow depths.

2)On surfacing she encountered high or rough seas.

3)The instructor / DM left her at the surface in the water, effectively abdictating responsibility for her safety to a surface crew.

4)For whatever reason she was unable to board, and the surface crew was unable to secure her safety in the window of time afforded them before she drifted away.

5)It would appear the the boat captain was alone on the boat (in my opinion thats understaffed, even if it complies with regulations) and had to abandon her rescue in the short term.

6)All the other divers had to be called up before the rescue could continue. It is unknown if she was in distress at this point, but it seems very likely there was at least an element of some stress, even if at this point it was minor, however, I am pretty sure that would have changed very quickly to a serious element of stress and possibly serious panic, once she realised she was adrift and no-one was coming to assist her.

7)It would appear no safety device like a life ring etc was thrown out to her to reel her back when she failed to board.

8)It would appear she drifted away fairly quickly and was not in the immediate area when the divers surfaced, or one of them could simply have swam over and assisted her.

9)The window of safety was lost when the surface crew lost control of the diver and could not continue the rescue - had the DM still been on the surface, this would not have happened - and there was a further loss of time before she could be found and assistance rendered.

There are always calls of judgement on a dive, most times, even if one calls it wrong, there is seldom an issue like a fatality to deal with, but as we can see here, its a distinct possibility and something that has to be considered.

Its just my opinion, but I believe the DM should have stayed with the diver until she was safely aboard, especially, as there were high seas, the captain was (apparently) alone on the boat, the diver was slightly older, maybe a little less fit and had experienced a stressfull episode.

 

[openmindOW]

I never pass fins up on a boat. They're either on my feet or on my wrists.

I was trained that way and that's what I teach my students, but there are dive operators out there who expect divers to hand fins up. I have even heard Pre-dive instructions telling divers dives to ahdn their fins to the crew.

N.B. I am not saying that this issue is any way related to the incident in question.