Diver dies in Islamorada

[openmindOW]

My trips to the keys have been on boats where there are no guides and that is how I want it.

Amen.

Personally, I like diving on my own with my own buddies. I don't want or need a dive guide.

 

[Montana Diver]

Somehow I missed this post yesterday but will address it now in relation to this incident. If you are fine with this arrangement all well and good. I personally would not be. If you are diving with a buddy and decide to end the dive the dive is over for you and your buddy until you are safely on the boat or on shore. If he should elect to continue the dive solo fine. But too many incidents have occurred when buddies get separated in benign conditions that have resulted in dead divers to risk it. And I never feel safe with "the group" because chances are unless I know them none of them are worth a squat if I have a problem.

I do know that if a Dm/Guide/Instructor is leading a dive and CHOOSES to escort a diver to the surface it then becomes more than just seeing them to the boat. Her buddy could and should have accompanied her, which by the way would have been the right thing to do. Then the instructor and the buddy could have continued the dive once the diver who was having difficulties was safely on board. This is one of the results of the discussion of always diving with a buddy but is seldom put into practice in OW classes. How many of you have seen divers being led around single file or in a group and have no idea who was buddied up with who? I'd bet most of you have.

My classes require buddies to stay together at all times from the first night in the pool swimming and snorkeling. If somebody gets a little carried away and thinks the swim is a race and laps their assigned buddy gues who is going to get back with their buddy and do an extra lap or two as a penalty for leaving their buddy. I don't give rat's butt if the DM/ Guide/ Whatever says it's ok I'll take him/her back you do not leave your buddy if you are truly diving as buddies. I do dive solo. Alot. But when I am with someone I am with them from the time we get into the water until we get out. Because it is that one time when everything seems ok that you say you're going up and will be fine that they turn bad in a second and he is now a widower. Not worth it.

Otherwise it is an agreed upon same ocean/lake/ quarry dive where we will meet up at such and such a time and are solely responsible for ourselves. That the instructor in this case did not make sure the diver was safely on the boat in those condtions, especially if there was only one other person the boat, is irresponsible and inexcusable. If there was more than one person on the boat and that person was not prepared, trained, or equipped to assist a diver who was having trouble at the surface while others were in the water is also irresponsible and inexcusable.

Divers should be able to take care of themselves. But if a situation arises where one cannot they have a right to expect that someone who is in a position to help will help. If this was not the case then the crew should have told everyone before going out that if they get in trouble to not expect any assistance. I would not have gone out in those conditions with only one person left on the boat. Calm, flat seas with no wind- OK.

But where there are 5-7 ft seas I would expect that if I surfaced and got into trouble there would at least be someone to toss me a line or assist me to the trail line. And again had her buddy done the right thing and stayed with her he may have been able to assist. This was a CF big time. Piss poor buddy procedures, lack of judgment on everyone's part, most likely insufficient training for this dive in these conditions, and on and on. As a result someone is dead. Again. And it did not have to happen.

I'd like to know why the instructor/guide thought it was ok to separate the buddies in a situation like this. It could have been a valuable lesson in proper buddy procedures and dive planning. Instead it is a lesson in funeral planning.

As a new diver, I have seen too many instances of insta-buddies on boat dives not practicing any form of buddy skills. I have been guilty of this in my first dives, however as I started into my rescue class, I realized the importance of great buddy skills. The thumbs up is not a request, it is a demand and the buddies should ascend as a team. Unfortunately, it is apparent some instructors fail to stress the importance of team. As I completed my OW, a DM/IDC was patient enough to pass along the importance of good buddies. That lesson has become more ingrained as I become a better diver.

The last boat dive I made, I realized that if I had an incident occur, that I would probably need to be able to resolve it without assistance from my so-called buddy. The husband and wife team may have discussed what should happen if one thumbed the dive, however, I realize the critical importance of being a buddy.

The point I am trying to make is that my buddy should be my lifeline. Perhaps new divers will realize the critical importance and take time to look at their buddies life support gear, realizing for whom it might be life support. Make it a habit to view your buddies skills as though your life depends on it(it might).

 

[Indian Valley Scuba]

It's interesting to hear how many different techniques, policies and procedures the different posters have offered, and that is a beautiful thing. Dive safely, however you define that as an individual or a group. While many good thoughts were posted, it is important to remember that there is no one way to dive, one rule for fins on/off, one standard for buddy re-organizing mid-dive...different situations call for different approaches, what works on one boat may not be best on another, no current on a dive versus strong current tends to change things.....just use your head, act prudently and enjoy your dives!

 

[bsee65]

It's interesting to hear how many different techniques, policies and procedures the different posters have offered, and that is a beautiful thing. Dive safely, however you define that as an individual or a group. While many good thoughts were posted, it is important to remember that there is no one way to dive, one rule for fins on/off, one standard for buddy re-organizing mid-dive...different situations call for different approaches, what works on one boat may not be best on another, no current on a dive versus strong current tends to change things.....just use your head, act prudently and enjoy your dives!

While there may not be one procedure for these things, there is one objective criteria for judging procedures. Did they work? If you re-organize buddies mid-dive, did everyone have a buddy and know who their buddy was? If so, the procedure was at least adequate. Likewise, a procedure for recovering divers to the boat could only be viewed as successful if all the divers who came to the ladder ended up safely aboard. The various techniques that have been posted here have one thing in common. There is at least one person responsible for ensuring that the diver returns safely such that they don't end up bobbing in the waves for twenty minutes.

Everything associated with diving has risks. If you're going to use a particular procedure on your boat, then you should have considered the risks associated with it and taken steps to minimize any that seem important. If a diver is asked to remove gear in the water, then there ought to be some plan in place if that diver becomes separated from the boat during the process. Allowing the diver to bob on the waves for long enough to drown three or four times wouldn't live up to my standard of safety. It would be nice if the diver's weight belt didn't sink to the ocean floor, but it's critical that the diver doesn't.

Again, whether the inability to board was more than academic in this case can't be known without more facts. Even so, I think almost all here view it as a glaring failure that this diver was not given more assistance at the boat once she was in trouble. If she did die as a result of the time she spent in the water after losing the ladder, there's likely to be significant fallout.

 

[Indian Valley Scuba]

I apologize, I missed the part where we were "judging procedures". Except for the very first post 12 pages ago, this entire thread has been nothing but well-meaning speculation and conjecture - none of the posters were witnesses to the actual event.

Again, lots of good stuff posted, and I wish the best - and safest - diving to all.

 

[diverrex]

While I think it's terrible that someone could get so close to the boat and end up not making it we really don't know many of the facts. It is possible the boat crew under the circumstances in which it was operating did what they should have done. Maybe there was a medical issue, maybe the diver was unconscious or non-responsive, we really don't know. But in general a certified diver should be able to wait on the surface safely for 20 minutes.

 

[Indian Valley Scuba]

I concur, but even the "20 minutes" is based on a newspaper report. That's the same source that has us all diving with "oxygen tanks" on our backs! In your heart, do you really think anyone was laying on the surface, unresponsive, for 20 minutes? Be real.

 

[Mike Boswell]

While I think it's terrible that someone could get so close to the boat and end up not making it we really don't know many of the facts. It is possible the boat crew under the circumstances in which it was operating did what they should have done. Maybe there was a medical issue, maybe the diver was unconscious or non-responsive, we really don't know. But in general a certified diver should be able to wait on the surface safely for 20 minutes.

I think we can all agree with that!

What we do know is that:
(a) She had a problem at 12' and thumbed the dive,
(b) The instructor brought her [-]to the boat[/-] to the surface and left,
(c) The boat crew lost her,
(d) The boat crew then banged on the ladder to recall the divers [-]from 100'[/-], and
(e) The boat then went to find her, too late.

If the Captain was all alone on the boat, he had a horrible decision to make, but he had to feel that his first duty was to his boat and the divers below, and his first rescue rule was "Don't make two casualties".

As a certified diver she was supposed to be able to handle herself, but the indications are she was incapacitated somehow, perhaps an impact, a heart attack or stroke.

If nothing else, lessons can be learned here. The next time I go out on a commercial dive boat, I am going to be thinking about this case and playing "what if's" in my head. I am going to make sure they have a chase boat and a rescue crewman on board.

And, regardless of what he/she may say, I will never leave a distressed diver until they are in safe hands.

 

[bsee65]

I think we can all agree with that!

What we do know is that:
(a) She had a problem at 12' and thumbed the dive,
(b) The instructor brought her to the boat and left,
(c) The boat crew lost her,
(d) The boat crew then banged on the ladder to recall the divers from 100', and
(e) The boat then went to find her, too late.

I posted something along these lines earlier in the thread. There are a couple conclusions that you jump to that aren't spelled out in the story. They may be correct, but aren't given to us as "facts". Even that assumes that you trust this particular reporter who, as far as I can see, made no mention of oxygen tanks.

First, the article says the instructor returned with the victim to the surface, not necessarily to the boat. We know she got to the stern, so that's maybe not an important distinction.

Second, we don't know from what depth the divers were recalled. We don't know if the group hovered around 15-20fsw until the instructor returned or descended while he was tending to the victim. We don't know how long it was until the crew raised the alarm. Therefore, we don't know how deep the group was when the banging started.

There's all sorts of critical information missing if your goal is to figure out exactly why the victim died. If, on the other hand, your goal is to learn to be safer yourself, there's plenty of meat here. There are quite a few thoughts on how such a situation could be handled well. At a minimum, I think more people will be thinking about staying with their buddy all the way onto the deck.

 

[Mike Boswell]

I posted something along these lines earlier in the thread. There are a couple conclusions that you jump to that aren't spelled out in the story. They may be correct, but aren't given to us as "facts". Even that assumes that you trust this particular reporter who, as far as I can see, made no mention of oxygen tanks.

First, the article says the instructor returned with the victim to the surface, not necessarily to the boat. We know she got to the stern, so that's maybe not an important distinction.

Second, we don't know from what depth the divers were recalled. We don't know if the group hovered around 15-20fsw until the instructor returned or descended while he was tending to the victim. We don't know how long it was until the crew raised the alarm. Therefore, we don't know how deep the group was when the banging started.

There's all sorts of critical information missing if your goal is to figure out exactly why the victim died. If, on the other hand, your goal is to learn to be safer yourself, there's plenty of meat here. There are quite a few thoughts on how such a situation could be handled well. At a minimum, I think more people will be thinking about staying with their buddy all the way onto the deck.

Thanks, Bsee65. I agree with you and fixed my original post, proving, once again, that everyone needs a good editor.

The autopsy that was scheduled for last week may have determined a COD, and if we could get news of that it might help to make sense of this tragedy.