Diver dies in Islamorada

[Jax]

The only thing we know is that the story said they went to FL for their AOW. We don't know if they were still in training, or not.

 

[ianr33]

If she made it to only 12-13 ft depth, it is possible her tank was off and she made it that deep by breathing only the air from the pressurized regulator. My only true underwater rescue was associated with a women who made it to 60 feet with her tank OFF.

Or the valve could have been just cracked open a tiny amount.Enough air to breathe on the surface but not at any depth. The only time I ever donated air for real was caused by that.

 

[Web Monkey]

Do the normal stay-with-your-buddy rules apply during a PADI AOW class?
Wouldn't there have been at least one additional DM (i.e., an alternate buddy) assisting the group?
Does PADI specify how many instructors and/or DMs need to be in the water and aboard the boat?

All cert agencies have instructors:student and divecon/dm:student ratios. I don't know what PADI's is, but I can pretty much guarantee it's more than "zero".

If a student is underwater for OW dives, an instructor needs to be there, and if the student is on the surface, a divecon or dm needs to be there.

If a student isn't on the boat or dry land, someone needs to be watching.

Terry

 

[dumpsterDiver]

Thanks for all the "SOP" BS. Apparently you did not read my post very closely and you have not dove this operation. As with many dive boats the "deck crew" when divers are in the water is the captain only. Have you ever tried to lift an unconscious person on dry land by yourself? It would be next to impossible for one person to lift that same person from the water into a pitching boat by themselves. The captain attempting a solo rescue would just put more people in danger.

The "SOP" for most dive boats I've been on is that when there is an emergency recall the divers in the water first. Starting engines over divers in the water is very dangerous and disconnecting from the moorings with one person on the boat would also be risky. Then say the captain did get get to the unconscious diver by himself, again he's not going to be able to get the diver back in the boat. I suppose he could tie a rope to the diver and tow her back to the mooring ball, just as the other divers are surfacing unawares and chop them up with the prop. Wow! good plan.

I've not dove on that boat and i probably did not read your post very carefully and just to be spiteful, I am not going to go back and read it.

If the operation was running an anchor dive (regardless of the sea state), then the SOP (you hate that don't you) should be to have TWO people on board, because as you suggest, it would be extremely difficult for one person to do it all themselves.

BTW, I know a capt who had to leave his vessel, swim down 10-15 feet, haul a diver to the surface and drag her unconcious up on the deck without any help at all. He tells a good story about how pissed her boyfriend was when he finally ascended and found his chick topless laying on the deck with the capt over her. Aparently her bikini top was lost as he drug her onto the platform and over the transom prior to commencing recue breaths...

Now IF the operation decided to run with no crew on the back deck ( a very poor decision I think) then the DM who brought the diver to the surface should NEVER have left his post ( the stern) until he was absolutely sure the lady was safely seated on board the boat unless there was another life or death emergency he had to attend to. This would be the case when it is calm and even more important when it is rough.

In my opinion, if the vessel was short handed, then the DM would have been better used as a rear deck person (dry) rather than diving with people.

 

[High & Dry]

So are you saying that you know for a fact that: l
1. The captain was alone on the boat?
2. The woman was unconscious right at the boat?

No, I'm not saying the captain was alone on the boat (you should read my original post). I'm just saying the last 20 or so times I dove with Key Dives the captain was the only person on the boat when the divers were in the water, other than the occasional sea sick diver. So jumping to the conclusion that there was a "deck crew" that should have been ready to jump in the water was not an assumption that should be made. I don't think any assumptions should be made in this case, this incident is still under investigation. Trying to analyze any event and place blame from the information in a newspaper article and TV news broadcast is ridiculous. Even after the investigation is done the news often has trouble getting it right (this I do know for a fact). I have no idea if the diver was conscious or not, but when you are going to rescue someone that is something that has to be considered, because many times if someone is in need of rescue they are either panicked to the point of fighting for air, unresponsive, or unconscious. Any of which makes it dangerous to make a solo rescue especially when that person has to be moved onto a pitching boat deck, which would risk the captains safety, and thus the rest of the divers safety.

 

[Jax]

Terry, I find yours and the other's comments about watching AOW students really interesting. In my AOW, and in the one other AOW class I observed, the training / skills part was done first, and the instructors specifically stated, "After x, y, and z are done, we are going to continue the recreational dive until . . ." and the instructor turned over the students to themselves, as a certified diver pair.

While I understand the heavy-duty attendence to an OW diver in training, at what point do you say -- "y'all are divers and responsible for yourself." ?

For example, if you are doing rescue diver training, and one of the trainees thumbs the dive, giving the 'ok' at the boat, say . . . when is it "okay"?

 

[cappyjon431]

One of the primary reasons I stopped working for a particular dive operation in the Keys (not the one mentioned on this thread) is that it was company policy that if the boat went out with six or fewer divers, I (as captain) would work the boat by myself without the benefit of having a DM onboard. I hated it--aside from the obvious safety issues, imagine trying to tie up a 42 foot Corinthian to a mooring in choppy seas by myself. It wasn't a whole lot of fun. As dive consumers, these are probably some of the questions you should be asking dive operators before booking a trip.

 

[Web Monkey]

Terry, I find yours and the other's comments about watching AOW students really interesting. In my AOW, and in the one other AOW class I observed, the training / skills part was done first, and the instructors specifically stated, "After x, y, and z are done, we are going to continue the recreational dive until . . ." and the instructor turned over the students to themselves, as a certified diver pair.

While I understand the heavy-duty attendence to an OW diver in training, at what point do you say -- "y'all are divers and responsible for yourself." ?

Right after they get an OW card. While it's never OK to leave un-certified divers alone in the water, specialty classes are a little different (AOW/etc.) in that the divers are supposedly qualified to dive without supervision. The instructor can certainly say "class is over, but you can continue diving if you wish".

OTOH, in this case, the diver was obviously having some sort of issue since the dive was abandoned early, and in this case it would be prudent to make sure that she got on the boat safely, regardless of whether or not it was a class.

Terry

 

[Jax]

No, I'm not saying the captain was alone on the boat (you should read my original post). I'm just saying the last 20 or so times I dove with Key Dives the captain was the only person on the boat when the divers were in the water, other than the occasional sea sick diver. So jumping to the conclusion that there was a "deck crew" that should have been ready to jump in the water was not an assumption that should be made. I don't think any assumptions should be made in this case, this incident is still under investigation. Trying to analyze any event and place blame from the information in a newspaper article and TV news broadcast is ridiculous. Even after the investigation is done the news often has trouble getting it right (this I do know for a fact). I have no idea if the diver was conscious or not, but when you are going to rescue someone that is something that has to be considered, because many times if someone is in need of rescue they are either panicked to the point of fighting for air, unresponsive, or unconscious. Any of which makes it dangerous to make a solo rescue especially when that person has to be moved onto a pitching boat deck, which would risk the captains safety, and thus the rest of the divers safety.

Perhaps you might find it helpful to take a quick read here, at the http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/accidents-incidents/52701-special-rules-please-read.html for this forum.

 

[yupito]

Although is not my wish to opine on the events of that particular day, I have done the Eagle on many occasions with Key Dives and can personally attest to the following:

1. They are a very professional outfit, all their DM are instructors.
2. They are only one of a couple of shops that actually send a DM guide with each group of six divers. This is important to me and the reason I frequent Key Dives as I dive alone and do not care for insta-buddies.
3. The Eagle is an AOW dive and they are meticulous about this. They do not take students (or at least I have never seen them do) to the Eagle.
4. When they do the Eagle, they moor the boat to one of two buoys that are directly anchored to the Eagle. They always extend a granny line from the buoy to the stern of the boat, and divers are instructed to use the granny line to move from the stern to the bow (and back). They also always throw a line from the stern. Divers are instructed to hold to the line, inflate the BC and remove their fins as they approach the ladder, keeping regulators and mask in place.
5. Key Dives is not shy about canceling a dive if conditions are not appropriate or scratching the Eagle if the current is too strong.
6. The boat is equipped with DAN oxygen.

I would assume:
1. This was not a class, and that the diver had completed her AOW prior to this dive.
2. The instructor was guiding the dive, and not instructing.
3. As the husband indicated, the diver gave the OK signal and was holding to the line, therefore it was appropriate for the DM to go back to the group which at this time would have been on their way down or already waiting at the wreck for the guide.
4. It would seem that there was only one DM and therefore the group was 6 or less. Therefore, on this particular outing it would seem that it was just the captain and the DM.
5. It is common safe practice that when a diver(s) drift, usually due to surfacing away from the boat or from strong currents, is to get all divers aboard before picking up the drifters.
6. It is not known from what i have read whether there was any indication of distress.
7. Whether the dive is guided or not, your buddy is still your buddy.