Why dive Deep Air?

[Cave Diver]

Although it doesn't matter, this wasn't on the Doria, but the U-Who (220'). I've read a report saying it was equipment related, but didn't hear any more. Do you have more specific information on this?

I certainly can see that narcosis is a mitigating factor, but is not usually the cause. If the diver is trained and experienced, he will terminate the dive if it goes too far.

I didn't say that it was on the Doria, however they dove that as well. And these divers were trained and experienced. That's part of the point. Narcosis affects judgment even in experienced divers.

The books I've read detailing the dive was that they penetrated the sub on air, left their deco bottles outside. Chrissy became entangled inside searching the sub and thought that "a monster had him" (reported as his words when he was back on deck). His father went in to help free him, they finally made it out. In their narced state of mind they missed their deco bottles and started running low on air. They passed several divers who could have shared air with on their bolt to the surface and basically suffered from extreme case of decompression illness on reaching the surface. One died on deck, the other died later in the chamber.

As I recall, one regulator may have been breathing wet, but that should have been a manageable issue by 1) switching to backup, 2) getting their deco bottles 3) sharing with another diver.

Narcosis apparently started the chain of events that led to their death through a series of bad judgment and altered perceptions.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I've missed anything in the recounting, it's been a few years since I read it.

 

[nolatom]

CD, that's how I remember it from the book. Not an equipment issue, but due to narced disorientation (young Chris thought the remnants of a liferaft were a monster he struggled with inside), they turned the wrong way coming out of the hull entry, and swam away from their stage bottles rather than towards them. Then just kept on towards the surface, with insufficient air for deco or even a slow ascent.

 

[DCBC]

I didn't say that it was on the Doria, however they dove that as well. And these divers were trained and experienced. That's part of the point. Narcosis affects judgment even in experienced divers.

The books I've read detailing the dive was that they penetrated the sub on air, left their deco bottles outside. Chrissy became entangled inside searching the sub and thought that "a monster had him" (reported as his words when he was back on deck). His father went in to help free him, they finally made it out. In their narced state of mind they missed their deco bottles and started running low on air. They passed several divers who could have shared air with on their bolt to the surface and basically suffered from extreme case of decompression illness on reaching the surface. One died on deck, the other died later in the chamber.

As I recall, one regulator may have been breathing wet, but that should have been a manageable issue by 1) switching to backup, 2) getting their deco bottles 3) sharing with another diver.

Narcosis apparently started the chain of events that led to their death through a series of bad judgment and altered perceptions.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I've missed anything in the recounting, it's been a few years since I read it.

I can't really comment on this, as it was my understanding that the problem was equipment malfunction. As to narcosis, I can only relate my experience. I've never found it unmanageable; even if it was only enough to know to abort the dive and ascend. The cases of narcosis that I've seen that have been life threatening to the diver, have involved divers who didn't possess the training and/or the experience to be that deep in the first place.

I'm not saying that it's not possible, I've read about cases where this has occurred. But it has never happened to me. That said, I've been to 300' on air in a chamber during testing at DCIEM. I know what can happen, although I was worried more about OxTox than narcosis.

 

[Divor]

Chrissy dug beneath a cabinet to free an artifact. It fell over. Then narcosis kicked in and he thought it was a monster. When Chris had freed Chrissy, they did not go for their cylinders that were only 40 feet away but searched at the wrong place because they were too narced.

Source: Kurson, R. Shadow Divers: bla bla bla adventure bla bla bla, Ballantine Books, New York, 2005, pp. 226-228.

A cabinet fell over. That caused the delay. Narcosis caused them not finding their cylinders.

This doesn't help the debate at all.

 

[DCBC]

This doesn't help the debate at all.

Thanks for the information.

 

[Rhone Man]

I know some people argue that narcosis played no part in the Rouse's deaths (I think John Chatterton himself even came onto SB to fiercely argue that point), but I am not completely convinced of that.

Yes it was a chain of unfortunate events, and maybe it ends badly even if they are on mix, but I have got to figure that they have a better chance of surviving if their thinking is clearer at 230 feet. I appreciate that the last set of bad decisions in the chain were made betwen 40' and the surface (all they had to do was stop... and either suck the remaining gas in their tanks, or grab the surface supplied O2 regulators), but it is probably a bit optimistic to suggest that what went before had no part in how it ended.

EDIT: Rhone Man was never convinced how wise it was to let someone as young as Chrissy do any dive to 230' penetrating an overhead environment, regardless of gas mix. From the accounts I have read Chrissy had a huge amount of, shall we call it "self belief", which may have fed into a bad situation when a very young man was suddenly and dramatically confronted with an extremely stressful development.

 

[Trace Malinowski]

Submarines can be deceptive little buggers. We think they are easy to navigate because they are just long tubes. On the bottom, they may lack the distinctive features that some larger wrecks may offer as cues to a diver's position. You can emerge from a hatch or a hole and and not be absolutely sure of port, starboard, bow or stern direction - especially if narced. Even on "good gas" I've found myself second-guessing my navigational decisions in the dark or in low-visibility. As some of my favorite wrecks to dive because of their history, I've learned to pay submarines a heap of respect. It's very possible to make directional mistakes on submarines no matter what gas you choose. Narcosis certainly doesn't help.

The Rouse accident wasn't just related to air or air + depth, but many other factors that were setting up a chain of events that could potentially lead to an accident. Even on trimix, the potential for an accident would have been tested from various accounts of that dive. They were having a bad day before they descended and the bad day got worse underwater until it became lethal. Unfortunately, they didn't get a Do-Over.

Technical divers balance risk with the reward of exploration. That balance is about removing as many potential coffin nails as possible. Under certain conditions, an extreme air dive can be done safely. The fact that many have prove this. If pressed, and without other options, divers may choose to use air. The Rouses had other options they chose not to use. The dive wasn't a failure simply because of air. The dive was a failure because of many factors including air. In some regions of the world, helium is not available. Divers choosing deep air must be aware that is a potential coffin nail and remove as many others as possible to stack the deck in their favor.

We've become like little children tattling and poking fingers, "Johnny's using air! Johnny's using air!" rather than looking deeper into the complexities of the accident chain. Yes, removing narcosis, is removing one link in the chain. But, we are setting ourselves up for dangerous errors when we believe that deep diving safety is as black and white as air vs. trimix.

 

[DCBC]

I know some people argue that narcosis played no part in the Rouse's deaths (I think John Chatterton himself even came onto SB to fiercely argue that point), but I am not completely convinced of that.

Yes it was a chain of unfortunate events, and maybe it ends badly even if they are on mix, but I have got to figure that they have a better chance of surviving if their thinking is clearer at 230 feet. I appreciate that the last set of bad decisions in the chain were made betwen 40' and the surface (all they had to do was stop... and either suck the remaining gas in their tanks, or grab the surface supplied O2 regulators), but it is probably a bit optimistic to suggest that what went before had no part in how it ended.

EDIT: Rhone Man was never convinced how wise it was to let someone as young as Chrissy do any dive to 230' penetrating an overhead environment, regardless of gas mix. From the accounts I have read Chrissy had a huge amount of, shall we call it "self belief", which may have fed into a bad situation when a very young man was suddenly and dramatically confronted with an extremely stressful development.

You make an excellent point. It's hard to say that narcosis was or wasn't a factor; although from what has been said, it certainly could have been.

When diver's die in the water, it's easy to blame the gas they used, the equipment they wore, or their fitness level. In my experience, death is most often caused by what the diver does, or fails to do. In deep dives, they often have not done adequate planning and preparation, don't have adequate training and usually not enough experience. Quite often they bite-off more than they can chew and when it comes down to it, they end up using poor judgment at some point.

I often see newly certified divers that shouldn't have been let out of the pool. A common response is that their card is a license to learn. Many of them are a hazard to themselves while they pursue the learning process. The same is true for many levels of diving including deep wreck diving. Having a card is no guarantee that the person is qualified to do the dive; nor is success on a deep wreck necessarily evidence that the person must have been qualified.

I don't like to use age as an indicator of experience, but when I was much younger, I was diving the Blue Holes of Andros without the proper experience. I was trained by George Benjamin, one of the foremost cave divers of his day, but in hindsight I shouldn't have been doing what I was (even after 3 months of doing it every day).

Accidents can happen to anyone. Saying that you're going to die by diving deep on air is the same thing as saying you're going to die if you dive in a cave. Both have an added element of danger. The only way you can guarantee not dieing by doing these things is by not going into the water in the first-place. You can mitigate harm by diving within your diving envelope. What this envelope is, is up to each diver to determine for themselves.

 

[captain]

This Day in Diving History -- 17 April 1915 -- Frank William Crilley saves Frank Loughman **

Chief Gunners Mate Frank William Crilley rescues Chief Gunners Mate Frank Loughman off the coast of Honolulu during the salvage of the USS F-4.

The F-4 had sank due to loss of depth control on 25 March 1915 off the coast of Honolulu. Navy Divers were in process of raising the sunken U-boat from
306 feet below the water's surface. Keep in mind that in 1915 Deep Sea Diving was far more art than science with equipment that was cumbersome by today's standards. Mixed-gas would not be discovered/developed as a diving breathing medium for another 24 years so the entire operation would have to be conducted on air. It was unknown whether the Divers could withstand the pressure at 300fsw because no one had ever dove that deep.

During the operation, GMC Frank Loughman followed an 8-inch thick steel hawser 250 feet down. At this depth, the current caused the hawser to bend.
Loughman paused to rest and became entangled in the hawser, breaking his hip in the process. Loughman fell unconscious and GMC Frank W. Crilley dove in after him, disregarding personal safety. He found Loughman and worked for an hour and a half to free him. Both men took hours to decompress and developed decompression sickness on the surface.

For his heroism, Crilley became the first Navy Diver to be awarded the Medal of Honor on February 15, 1929. This is even more impressive when it is realized that the entire operation and rescue was conducted with air as the breathing medium. William Crilley was also awarded the Navy Cross for his actions later on the submarine salvage S-4 which would occur some 13 years later, but that is a different story.

Note: USS CRILLEY (YHLC-1), a heavy salvage lifting craft was commissioned in 1967 in support of Pacific theater salvage operations. The SWRMC Divers (formally CDU) facility was named in his honor on March 22, 2002. There is also a building in the Washington Navy Yard named after him.

Medal of Honor citation of Chief Gunner's Mate Frank W. Crilley:

"For display of extraordinary heroism in the line of his profession above and beyond the call of duty during the diving operations in connection with the sinking in a depth of water 304 feet, of the U.S.S. F-4 with all on board, as a result of loss of depth control, which occurred off Honolulu, T.H., on 25 March 1915. On 17 April 1915, William F. Loughman, chief gunner's mate, United States Navy, who had descended to the wreck and had examined one of the wire hawsers attached to it, upon starting his ascent, and when at a depth of 250 feet beneath the surface of the water, had his life line and air hose so badly fouled by this hawser that he was unable to free himself; he could neither ascend nor descend. On account of the length of time that Loughman had already been subjected to the great pressure due to the depth of water, and the uncertainty of the additional time he would have to be subjected to this pressure before he could be brought to the surface, it was imperative that steps be taken at once to clear him.

Instantly, realizing the desperate case of his comrade, CRILLEY volunteered to go to his aid, immediately donned a diving suit and descended. After a lapse of time of 2 hours and 11 minutes, CRILLEY was brought to the surface, having by a superb exhibition of skill, coolness, endurance and fortitude, untangled the snarl of lines and cleared his imperiled comrade, so that he was brought, still alive, to the surface."

 

[Trace Malinowski]

This Day in Diving History -- 17 April 1915 -- Frank William Crilley saves Frank Loughman **

Sadly, one has to wonder if such a thing happened today, would someone be subject to court-martial for letting him do it? Ah, what a cynic I've become in a world where fallen astronauts become "victims" rather than heroes and no diving feat seems to be admired unless it is DIR.