OW class problems and questions

[newbie2scuba]

My family has been taking an OW class together and we've run into some problems. Pool session 1 was basically fine. Pool session 2 was kind of a disaster for most of the group. I took in a mouthfull of water when trying the reg retrieval and it went down hill from there. The ones that didn't have problems have been declared "ocean ready" but aren't really comfortable with the idea of going into the ocean yet. So now I've got some questions and would appreciate any suggestions or input.

1. Pool time - The class was set up with about 5 hours of pool time. Is that typical or is that short?

2. The pool session - especially the 2nd one - was hop in the pool and start some drills. Is that the normal way classes are run? Or do they usually spend some time just swimming a little in the shallow end to get comfortable with all that gear?

3. Equipment - I had a lot of problems with my mask leaking. When I tried to take it back to the shop and switch it, the shop gave me kind of an earful about how it hurt them financially to swap it and how it must be me and not the mask. But since at a "discover scuba" session at a different place I'd had NO problems whatsoever with the mask leaking, I insisted. Is it expected for some people to have to switch things like masks or was I being unreasonable?

Bottom line is I'm trying to figure out if my expectations are unreasonable, if I'm just not cut out for scuba or something in between. Any advice is appreciated.

 

[Tortuga68]

1. Don't know what agency you're going through, but PADI OW has 5 confined water (pool) dives, so 5 hours or less would be normal IMO

2. The pool sessions should gradually build on comfort. Dive One in particular should allow sufficent time for the students to become comfortable breathing froma reg underwater, and swiming with scuba

3. Sounds like they sold you the mask? Seems unreasonable either way. People have different shaped faces, different masks suit different peope, surprised that they would sell you a mask (if that's what they did) without letting you try a rental one first. If you didn't buy the mask then not sure what their point is

If students aren't comfortable going into the ocean yet they should have the opportunity for more pool time, no point pushing them

 

[CamG]

Greetings Newbie and welcome to Scuba Board!
Firstly I think that you are experiencing what many dive trainees have in the past.
Scuba is not a natural activity for most and takes some time to gain comfort and mastery of the 18 basic skills. This is very common to have issues in the pool and sometimes require extra time to gain comfort and skill mastery. This was the case for me and it was worth every extra effort and cost. When I hit OW I was able to pass with no problems. This was due to the efforts of DM Linda and MSDT Mark and a commitment by myself to conquer these issues. IT WILL GET BETTER!
Take your time and get some extra pool time so you all can have fun and enjoy diving!
After all it is supposed to be fun, the third rule of scuba HAVE FUN!
First rule; NEVER HOLD YOUR BREATH!
Second rule; NEVER PANIC!
5 hours is probably the average pool time but in many cases like mine it takes more to gain comfort and mastery of the skills.
Pool sessions are structured to allow you to gain comfort and practice the skills required to dive safely. It is the responsibility of the instructor to demonstrate and assist you in learning these skills. At some point you will have to demonstrate your skills to meet a satisfactory check off that means you are ready to perform them in OW. If you are not confident then ask for more pool time and be willing to compensate if it is required. I was more than happy to do so and it was worth it ten times over. The greatest thing I learned from the personal pool time was trust, confidence and determination. When I committed to conquering the issues it was over, that simple! Our brains can present us with individual specific challenges that take extra time to conquer, NO WORRIES! We can overcome, we will overcome!
Mask issues are a common problem to new divers! We all have purchased a ill fitting mask at one time or another. There are some awesome information here on mask issues and fit. Try the search here on Scuba Board to research them.
I will tray to be brief but fit is everything on a mask. Purchasing the perfect fit mask is a buddy required activity! Select a low volume, easy to clear mask and place it on your face in position. DO NOT SUCK IT DOWN YET!
Next have your buddy look for facial features that create opening or cracks in the seal. Try different sizes and styles till you find one that will seal without suction.
Then if possible try in the pool before you buy it. My motto is TRY BEFORE YOU BUY!
This is not always possible but many times is.
Are you being unreasonable? Returns are a part of business and a happy customer will always buy more than a unhappy one. My LDS would exchange it and move on no issues.
I would like to encourage you to stick with it, determine to conquer your issues and make the call once you have completed your training. I really decided after OW dive #1 that diving was for me. I immediately purchased all of my gear a week latter and that was just the beginning!
The adventure and journey has been one of the most rewarding experiences of my life. The places I have visited and friends i have met still blow my mind!
Hang in there and please PM me if I can be of assistance. I would love to help in any way I can. I am sure that many more will offer assistance as well but always that you are part of a community, the dive community and we have all came from where you are right now!
CamG Keep diving....keep training....keep learning!

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

Did you also do reg recovery in the first pool session, in the first batch of skills?

If this is a PADI course, the 5 CW dives are usually separated by a swim period at the end of each session, so starting skills right away is normal.

Did you buy a different mask than the one that didn't leak on the Discover Dive?

 

[tstormdiver]

Well,.... each shop/ instructor does their courses a bit differently. I can tell you what my LDS does.
1. Our pool sessions run at least 10hrs of pool time run over the course of 4 or 5 sessions. Sometimes that may be shortened by a couple of hours if it is a 1 on 1 type setting. Usually in that context, most skills can be learned a bit quicker.

2. In our classes we try to give the students a little "play time" to practice their skills & buoyancy at the end of every pool session. Sometimes things don't run as well with the classes & time runs out before we can set aside that time. That's just the way it happens sometimes. I'm sure you'll agree there's a lot of skills to be covered. The good thing is, our LDS will let OW students get a little extra practice in the pool when another class is going on as long as there's another instructor to keep an eye on them, they don't get in the way of the on- going class & the pool isn't too crowded.

3. Our shop will gladly exchange, replace or refund equipment that is not right. Diving is an absolute passion for the head instructor/ owner, & he wants everyone else to enjoy it as much as he does. Ill fitting equipment will ruin a dive in no time. Question..... Where you properly fitted for a mask, or did they just put one on you & say, "that should do it". With a proper fitting, a leaking mask shouldn't be an issue. I know I have a little problem with masks leaking when I remove/ replace the regulator because I do not have much space between my nose & upper lip. It is just something I've learned to deal with.

Your expectations are not unrealistic, but may be incompatible with that particular shop/ instructor. That is why it is highly suggested to "interview" your instructor/ dive shop. Ask questions on what to expect. I will admit though,.... sometimes you don't know what you don't know. Sorry you felt your class wasn't as fulfilling as you would have liked. Diving is a great sport & I hope you go on to enjoy it for many more years.

 

[Cave Diver]

My family has been taking an OW class together and we've run into some problems. Pool session 1 was basically fine. Pool session 2 was kind of a disaster for most of the group. I took in a mouthfull of water when trying the reg retrieval and it went down hill from there. The ones that didn't have problems have been declared "ocean ready" but aren't really comfortable with the idea of going into the ocean yet. So now I've got some questions and would appreciate any suggestions or input.

1. Pool time - The class was set up with about 5 hours of pool time. Is that typical or is that short?

2. The pool session - especially the 2nd one - was hop in the pool and start some drills. Is that the normal way classes are run? Or do they usually spend some time just swimming a little in the shallow end to get comfortable with all that gear?

3. Equipment - I had a lot of problems with my mask leaking. When I tried to take it back to the shop and switch it, the shop gave me kind of an earful about how it hurt them financially to swap it and how it must be me and not the mask. But since at a "discover scuba" session at a different place I'd had NO problems whatsoever with the mask leaking, I insisted. Is it expected for some people to have to switch things like masks or was I being unreasonable?

Bottom line is I'm trying to figure out if my expectations are unreasonable, if I'm just not cut out for scuba or something in between. Any advice is appreciated.

If you're not comfortable, speak up and let the instructor know you're struggling a bit and you'd like to arrange some extra pool time. Your expectations don't sound unreasonable, but communication is the key.

It's hard to see how swapping a mask could be such a financial burden. Be polite, but firm and stick to your guns. If this is indicative of how the shop does business I'd definitely consider taking my business elsewhere as soon as possible and limit purchases to necessities only.

Good luck with the rest of your training!

 

[Jim Lapenta]

My OW class is 16 hours in the pool over 6-8 weeks. Basic skills are done every class and repeated under various task loads. The first session, and usually into the second, is all swimming, snorkeling, and skin diving skills and practice. Every session also includes time for just swimming around with the gear and having a little fun with it. And though it may be allowed by some agencies I don't see 5 hours as nearly enough. Especially if there are students who are not comfortable with it. The 16 hours is required by mine.

Ask each and every one in your class who has been declared "ocean ready" if they feel they will have the skills and knowledge necessary to independently plan, execute, and safely return from a dive in the same conditions you'll do your checkouts with each other. If not then you are getting screwed. Ask those ocean ready divers if they are comfortable with the idea of even doing their checkouts in the ocean right now. If not they are getting screwed. One of the ways I look at whether students are ready for checkouts is if they are excited about them. They should not be fearful, concerned, or questioning the skills they have.

If they are they are not ready to do them and we need to find out what the issue is and address it. Otherwise no one benefits. And you end up not with divers but with Underwater tourists who need to be led around like sheep if they even dive again. These are the kinds of "divers" who get just enough to get in the water, get the crap scared out of them, and say this not for me. And all that time and money has been wasted where if more time was taken to get comfortable and gain the skills you could have had a lifelong activity that would not only be fun but enrich every aspect of your life.

The shop I refer my students to will not allow them to pay for their gear until just before checkouts. He wants to be sure what you have fots and is right for you. If that means swapping out masks 4 or 5 times it's ok. That shop is full of it and not looking to have you come back for anything.

 

[spectrum]

Newbie2 scuba,

As you have gleaned there are more extensive coiurses offered but your experience is not out of the norm. The run of the mill class is geared to the easy learner nad offers no time for adaptation or other setbacks.

Before getting near a BC, cylinder and regulator you should have had some swim and skin-dive activity. Then gear is introduced in shallow water where you can stand at will.

Most classes will allow you to jump in with the next class to get more time. Dedicated time extra time/attention may be gratis or for fee.

Pure and simple don't go to the ocean if you don't feel ready. Before making that decision take an objective self inventory. Is the concern anxious excitement or a true skills concern? In any case you need to discuss this with the instructor to gauge your concerns and any remedial needs.

Usually if you are getting gear from your training shop (assuming there is an affiliated shop) they will work with you on sensitive things like a mask. Of course a used mask is never new again and they may take a hit on reselling it so it's not a freebie. It may not be the mask, did your instructor work with you to make sure it's not too tight? Over tightening the mask is a common new diver error/tendency.

Good luck in working though this. Trust me, it will be worh the effort for you and as a family.

Pete

 

[newbie2scuba]

Thanks for the replies so far. To clarify, the LDS who we are getting the training through fit us with our personal gear. We had to purchase it up front - no rental options available. When I mentioned the mask problems, the instructor tried to work with me to adjust it right, but nothing worked. I had thought, based on earlier discusssions with the shop, that we would be able to swap if there were problems, but when I went to actually do it there was a LOT of resistance.

The agency we're going through is NAUI.

We've never done any skin diving during the pool sessions. We had to get into full gear on pool session 1 and start with reg retrieval. I was terrified, but managed to do it ok. We were given the chance to swim for a few minutes at the end of pool #1, but because of kneeling for so long I cramped up in both legs as soon as we tried to take off.

What are the required ratios for the pool sessions? I'd like to tag along on another class but am wondering if that's going to be possible.

 

[spectrum]

If they provided the personal gear then I would expet nothing less than contentment. They can't expect a new diver to evalaute those items. FYI, some background info is here.

No skin-diving with NAUI? I may be mistaken but I believe retention of skin-diving is one of their hallmarks. They still include an OW skin-dive for heavens sake. Others more in tune with the agency are sure to chime in.

The skills progression sounds agressive.

Pete