OW class problems and questions

[ScubaFeenD]

My OW class is 16 hours in the pool over 6-8 weeks. Basic skills are done every class and repeated under various task loads.

If I had to spend 16 hrs minimum in the pool I would have gone crazy. However I wish I had been task loaded to the maximum when I was learning. I think it would have really helped progress me along my learning. I like how committed you are to training a very competent OW diver from the get go though; it is really refreshing to see

Regarding the class: make sure if you are having trouble or are unsure of your skills you address it immediately and persistently until the issue is resolved by the instructor. If you need extra time or more personal attention it is the instructors responsibility not yours. Just make sure you are comfortable before moving on with any part of the class.

Regarding the mask: if it doesn't work, and you want a different mask then you aren't being unreasonable. Don't let their comments about losing a bit of money go to heart either. Proper businesses sometimes have to lose a little to make more in customer relationships later. If they just swapped it out they would have had a better chance at forming a lasting relationship that would have worked out in their favor in the end.

 

[idocsteve]

My girlfriend got certified a few months back locally here on Long Island and get a referral so she could finish up her certification and do her OW checkout dives in Fort Lauderdale.

The Dive Shop up here was excellent in every way, Tony from Hampton Dive Center did everything he could to make sure she was properly trained and set up with the basic gear, however she had trouble finding a mask that would fit her small head. Tony never had a problem with trying different masks, each one brand new...ultimately they were happy to refund her the cost of the mask and we found one in Florida at one of those mega Scuba Marts which has a much larger selection, and it fit her perfectly with no leaks.

The point being that Scuba diving is a very customer service oriented profession. If the Dive Shop that serviced you got an attitude about you swapping out a poorly fit mask then there are some serious issues there.

Her classroom/pool sessions were 4- 4 hour sessions over about a month, and split with pool and classroom for somewhere in the vicinity of 8-10 hours of pool time.

5 hours sounds like too little...even the amount my girlfriend had was probably less than optimal but it's my understanding that's how PADI courses are designed. There's only so much training you can receive before the costs would become excessive. You gotta just keep learning with every dive following the OW certification. The training never stops.

 

[ReefHugger]

There have been a lot of comments on the mask, so I'll omit that.

The course you have described, sounds to me, quite 'rounded', that is, all the corners have been cut.

I am presently looking at NAUI's Scuba Diver Progress Record sheet (Item # 80044 in their shop). It shows that you should have demonstrated stroke proficiency, 10 min. survival swim, and 50 ft 1 breath underwater swim. You should then have gone on to skin diving and do entries, surface dives, surface swimming, clearing snorkel, ditching wgt. belt, bouyancy control, underwater swimming and surfacing, 450 yd non stop snorkel swim, and recover a diver from 10 ft. All this before you even touch the scuba equipment.

My pool time is generally 12-15 hrs. as I have added a bit. Normally the first sessions with the scuba gear are quite slow. This solid base usually pay off and students actually accelerate later notwithstanding task loading.

As to purchasing equipment, I usually advise my students to hold off until they have had at least the lecture on equipment. But then, I don't sell equipment.

If you are not comfortable, please let your instructor know and as another poster advised, be firm. Your open water dives are supposed to be enjoyable, not 'white knuckle affairs'.

 

[newbie2scuba]

I'm glad I found this site - so many people willing to give advice!

To clarify a couple of things asked in some replies:
- We had to buy snorkel, mask, fins, booties, and gloves.

-We didn't do any type of swim test. The first time in the pool we were donning our gear. Never did any type of checking of our weighting either - but maybe that comes later.

-The skills they seem to be covering (according to the ones who completed the pool work) are reg retrieval, mask removal & clearing, sharing air, ditching & donning BC & weight belt.

-the class is through our LDS. We were kind of hoping to be certified in time to do a vacation dive this summer, but not sure that will work.

-Unfortunately, I seem to be the one in the family with the most problems in the water - hubby & kids are doing better, but even the few who completed all of it don't feel ocean ready. As a matter of fact, we're pretty lucky daughter didn't do serious ear damage - she didn't know what to do when things started hurting on the way back up in the deep end of the pool and tried to clear her ears the way she did on the way down. Woke up the next morning with all kinds of facial swelling and pain. It's cleared up but now she's kind of spooked - and she absolutely loves the water.

 

[Thalassamania]

It sounds to me like a gross case of teaching to absolute minimum standards, and perhaps below them. The strength of NAUI's program is in each instructor's ability to add to the course in ways that help the student(s), when you find a NAUI instructor who is not even meeting minimum standards it is time to discuss that problem with someone in the shop who has some authority, or if need be with NAUI headquarters. I'm truly sorry that you started off this way, it's not how it should be.

 

[rstofer]

I'm glad I found this site - so many people willing to give advice!

To clarify a couple of things asked in some replies:
- We had to buy snorkel, mask, fins, booties, and gloves.

Pretty traditional. It's the same around here. You just rent the wetsuit, weightbelt, hood, BC and regs for the OW dives.

-We didn't do any type of swim test. The first time in the pool we were donning our gear. Never did any type of checking of our weighting either - but maybe that comes later.

There should be a formal swim test. I'm not sure what the requirements are for NAUI but for PADI it is 200 yards, any style, no time limit. Plus some treading water - 10 minutes?

Unless you were wearing a full wetsuit in the pool, there is no point in worrying about weighting. Around here, the pool in 91 deg F so nobody wears any kind of thermal protection.

-The skills they seem to be covering (according to the ones who completed the pool work) are reg retrieval, mask removal & clearing, sharing air, ditching & donning BC & weight belt.

There should also be some type of rescue taught during OW. For PADI it is limited to a couple of towing techniques (fin push and tank pull) but I seem to recall that NAUI got a lot more interested. But I'm not sure what the current requirements are.

-the class is through our LDS. We were kind of hoping to be certified in time to do a vacation dive this summer, but not sure that will work.

There's plenty of time. In fact, you can take a referral for the OW dives and do them while you are on vacation.

-Unfortunately, I seem to be the one in the family with the most problems in the water - hubby & kids are doing better, but even the few who completed all of it don't feel ocean ready.

If a student doesn't think they are ready, they aren't! Talk to the shop about more pool sessions.

As a matter of fact, we're pretty lucky daughter didn't do serious ear damage - she didn't know what to do when things started hurting on the way back up in the deep end of the pool and tried to clear her ears the way she did on the way down. Woke up the next morning with all kinds of facial swelling and pain. It's cleared up but now she's kind of spooked - and she absolutely loves the water.

This increasing pressure on ascent is known as a 'reverse block'. It is discussed in the PADI OW manual on pages 24 & 25. Basically, it is uncommon and generally caused by diving with congestion cleared by medication. The medication wears off and the congestion returns. "To avoid this, don't dive with a cold or allergy congestion, even if you use decongestants or other medications". So sayeth PADI.

This happened to an insta-buddy one time. She didn't bother to mention that she had a cold and, while trying to ascend from about 40', she developed intense pair. Good thing we had a lot of air! It eventually cleared and she was able to surface. The alternatives were not good...

Are you sure it wasn't covered in your course material?

Richard

 

[Walter]

1. Pool time - The class was set up with about 5 hours of pool time. Is that typical or is that short?

It's all too typical, it is also, in my opinion, just short of criminal.

2. The pool session - especially the 2nd one - was hop in the pool and start some drills. Is that the normal way classes are run? Or do they usually spend some time just swimming a little in the shallow end to get comfortable with all that gear?

Ideally, you will review skills you learned from the previous session before proceeding to new skills. Typically, classes are not run in what I consider the ideal fashion. In learning to dive, "normal," "usual," and "typical" indicate a pretty poor class, in my opinion.

3. Equipment - I had a lot of problems with my mask leaking. When I tried to take it back to the shop and switch it, the shop gave me kind of an earful about how it hurt them financially to swap it and how it must be me and not the mask. But since at a "discover scuba" session at a different place I'd had NO problems whatsoever with the mask leaking, I insisted. Is it expected for some people to have to switch things like masks or was I being unreasonable?

It's likely you were never told how to properly check to see if a mask fits.

Tilt your head back and look at the ceiling. Place the mask on your face and have a buddy walk around and look at the fit. Are there any gaps between your face and the mask? If there are none, gently sniff in and look forward. A properly fitting mask will stay in place and be comfortable. Never hold a mask to your face to determine fit.

We didn't do any type of swim test. The first time in the pool we were donning our gear. Never did any type of checking of our weighting either - but maybe that comes later.

Both are violations of standards.

The skills they seem to be covering (according to the ones who completed the pool work) are reg retrieval, mask removal & clearing, sharing air, ditching & donning BC & weight belt.

They are leaving out a great deal.

the class is through our LDS. We were kind of hoping to be certified in time to do a vacation dive this summer, but not sure that will work.

There's plenty of time before summer to conduct a complete class from scratch.

Unfortunately, I seem to be the one in the family with the most problems in the water - hubby & kids are doing better, but even the few who completed all of it don't feel ocean ready.

I'd be surprised if they did after so little training.

 

[DCBC]

...I've see in this thread alone pool sessions of 26, 16, 12, 10, and 8 hours in length. That's great, if you have the time, but some people just don't have 2-4 days to spend when they are on their vacation just on pool work.

Resort / Vacation training is a little different than your LDS. It's doesn't mean though that a person isn't competent if an instructor is able to get through all the skills in 5 hours. A person could still be incompetent after 26 hours.

I just come at this from a little different perspective, some instructors need to follow shop policy or they could find themselves out of a job. Some places are pretty cut throat that way. I don't necessarily agree with it, but it is reality for some.

I can't speak to how other instructors run their courses, but what's needed will largely depend upon the local diving conditions. As I've mentioned, my course is 26 hours in the pool. The open-water conditions here today are unbelievably good in the North Atlantic. The water temperature is up to 35.8 °F, with wave heights of only 4.3 Ft. The currents can still be a problem and the tides are the highest in the world. You can't really compare what's required here to vacation diving.

The faster the course, the less you can charge and the more money you (or the LDS) makes. It seems that the focus for some is economics and not diver education. If I figure that the student requires 26 hours (or more) in the pool to be safe to dive here and I'm willing to do it for free, the student has to believe that either I like wasting my time, or there's a reason behind the madness. When they get to openwater, they quickly understand.

 

[merxlin]

Newbie2scuba- You have been given lots of good advice. Have you had a chance to discuss the issues with your current shop? If so, and you are not comfortable, the best advice is probably to find a new shop. Your profile shows you are from So. Cal and there are no shortage of NAUI shops to go to. Your current shop can give you a referral so all you have to do is finish up, but you might want to start at the beginning and do the complete in-water training over so that you are very comfortable. If you find a shop you like, ask to watch a pool session before you make your final decision so you can see how they handle students. You should have plenty of time to do that before your summer vacation.

Starting confident will make a big difference in how much you enjoy this sport.

 

[garyfotodiver]

BTW, my daughter had 10 hours pool time in a PADI course.