OW class problems and questions

[Jim Lapenta]

There is also a swim requirement before training starts or there used to be.

 

[TSandM]

If the shop helped you select and fit the mask, they should be gracious about taking it back and exchange it, in my opinion. It is not difficult to find a mask that fits reasonably well (although it took three tries for me to find one that was PERFECTLY dry) and if they didn't do that properly for you, they should cheerfully take it back and try again.

My class was like yours (although with more total pool time). We put gear on and got in the water in it, and I had a heck of a time. My husband now gets his students in the water with mask and snorkel, and does all the skin diving skills before students even get into gear. It seems to help a lot, but I don't think it's common (and in fact, in the PADI system, this wasn't even permitted until the rule change about a year ago).

I was a total klutz in my OW class, in the pool and in OW. My advice would be to request additional pool time, until you really feel comfortable in the gear and with the skills, before you go to OW. Otherwise, you'll just be bewildered there, too.

 

[carrielsal]

I had a lot of problems with my mask leaking. When I tried to take it back to the shop and switch it, the shop gave me kind of an earful about how it hurt them financially to swap it and how it must be me and not the mask. But since at a "discover scuba" session at a different place I'd had NO problems whatsoever with the mask leaking, I insisted. Is it expected for some people to have to switch things like masks or was I being unreasonable?

Bottom line is I'm trying to figure out if my expectations are unreasonable, if I'm just not cut out for scuba or something in between. Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks for the replies so far. To clarify, the LDS who we are getting the training through fit us with our personal gear. We had to purchase it up front - no rental options available. When I mentioned the mask problems, the instructor tried to work with me to adjust it right, but nothing worked. I had thought, based on earlier discusssions with the shop, that we would be able to swap if there were problems, but when I went to actually do it there was a LOT of resistance.

I'm sorry your LDS is giving you grief over your mask.
My LDS would gladly swap your mask. People have different face shapes and not all masks work for everyone. Sometimes you need to try several to find a mask that fits comfortably and doesn't leak. I would insist on a mask exchange and consider taking my business elsewhere for any future equipment purchases.

 

[kanonfodr]

I'm not sure I like the idea of a shop that requires fresh OW students to purchase their gear before day 1. IME, a good outfit will only require divers to purchase their own mask, fins, and snorkel before OW, the rest is provided. It just rubs me wrong, because how are you supposed to make an informed decision about some pretty costly equipment when you don't have the first clue about any of it??

It may sound like a lump of suck but I would consider changing shops, or at least instructors. I understand that it can be rather frightening, financially, but if the LDS you are going through won't change your mask out for you, a simple request that makes such a difference, then I would fret over something much more expensive possibly breaking and requiring action on their part.

I'm also surprised your instructor doesn't have a box full of different masks since they are easily lost, straps broken, forgotten, etc. I'm just a diver but I carry a spare mask on me all the time and it saved my buddy this weekend because his mask managed to grow legs and walk away .

Peace,
Greg

 

[DCBC]

1. Pool time - The class was set up with about 5 hours of pool time. Is that typical or is that short?

My course is 50 hours; it varies, but it usually breaks down to approx. 14 hrs classroom, 26 hrs pool and 10 hrs Openwater. It's more comprehensive than many recreational courses. What's "typical" will vary between the training organizations and between instructors.

2. The pool session - especially the 2nd one - was hop in the pool and start some drills. Is that the normal way classes are run? Or do they usually spend some time just swimming a little in the shallow end to get comfortable with all that gear?

Again it depends upon the course. I have a fairly extensive swimming / in-water evaluation on the first night and do a warm-up swim at the beginning of each pool session. People are given ample time to practice newly acquired skills.

3. Equipment - I had a lot of problems with my mask leaking. When I tried to take it back to the shop and switch it, the shop gave me kind of an earful about how it hurt them financially to swap it and how it must be me and not the mask. But since at a "discover scuba" session at a different place I'd had NO problems whatsoever with the mask leaking, I insisted. Is it expected for some people to have to switch things like masks or was I being unreasonable?

The shop where you purchased your mask should want to make sure that you are comfortable with your purchase. Its already been explained that mask fit varies considerably from one person to another. Selection usually requires testing several to ascertain which one fits you the best. I'm not sure if you had assistance in the selection, but it's mandatory that you are comfortable with a properly fitting mask.

Bottom line is I'm trying to figure out if my expectations are unreasonable, if I'm just not cut out for scuba or something in between. Any advice is appreciated.

There is a tendency for training time to be much shorter than it use to be. Diving is suppose to be an enjoyable activity. You're there to learn, but it's usually enjoyable for those who are comfortable in the water to begin with. You should be allowed time to be acclimatized to your new environment.

Talk to the instructor and express your concerns. If this course isn't doing it for you, look at other programs. Perhaps seek out a dive club where the courses tend to be at a slower pace. I feel that it's important that a student develop a degree of confidence in the equipment and in their ability before going to Openwater.

 

[boulderjohn]

How big was your class? (The more students int he class, the more time it takes to get through the required materials.)

If I have 1 or 2 students only and focus on the skills exclusively, then I could probably do the required skills in 5 hours. If I include the free swimming portion of the class, as I should, it takes longer. If I have a normal sized class with another instructor acting as an assitant who can both teach and evaluate skills, I can only get it done in 8 hours if all goes well and no students have significant problems. That is for PADI. I am unfamiliar with NAUI requirements, but I find it hard to believe they can do it in less.

In my own OW training, I was one of two students in the pool, and we finished in about 3 hours total. It was not until much later that I learned how many required skills they skipped.

 

[lobstah]

Most of dive shops in SoCal would have no problem to replace mask they sold which doesn't fit and was only used in a pool, during the training you bought from the same shop.

I will echo comments that you should not go into the ocean if you feel uneasy about it. Let instructor know and expect that extra pool time might come with additional fee.

Remember - it's supposed to be a fun activity, not grueling experience. This usually helps to put things in perspective.

 

[--tom--]

I'm not sure I like the idea of a shop that requires fresh OW students to purchase their gear before day 1. IME, a good outfit will only require divers to purchase their own mask, fins, and snorkel before OW, the rest is provided. It just rubs me wrong, because how are you supposed to make an informed decision about some pretty costly equipment when you don't have the first clue about any of it??

I can appreciate your sentiment, but this type of approach can be very pro-customer if handled well. (IMO, the OP's shop did NOT handle it well). I like the students to have their best guess for gear on the first session. I have a few sets of current masks, fins and boots just to adjust for fit. That way the students can try several different styles during the experience and exchange accordingly. The students seem to be more confident with their final gear choice when I do that.

--end of hijack --

 

[merxlin]

Newbie- what exactly did you have to buy, was it more than a mask fins and snorkel? And when you say other members of your family are "ocean ready" you mean they had progressed to the point where they are ready for the open water (ocean) portion of the training, correct?

5 hours total pool time seems fast for any size group, much less for a group where some members had issues. When you had problems, did the instructor help you with more instruction, or did a DM (assistant to the instructor) help you? What was the shops suggestion for those of you who had issues- are they scheduling more training for you?

 

[Grish]

My family has been taking an OW class together and we've run into some problems. Pool session 1 was basically fine. Pool session 2 was kind of a disaster for most of the group. I took in a mouthfull of water when trying the reg retrieval and it went down hill from there. The ones that didn't have problems have been declared "ocean ready" but aren't really comfortable with the idea of going into the ocean yet. So now I've got some questions and would appreciate any suggestions or input.

1. Pool time - The class was set up with about 5 hours of pool time. Is that typical or is that short?

2. The pool session - especially the 2nd one - was hop in the pool and start some drills. Is that the normal way classes are run? Or do they usually spend some time just swimming a little in the shallow end to get comfortable with all that gear?

3. Equipment - I had a lot of problems with my mask leaking. When I tried to take it back to the shop and switch it, the shop gave me kind of an earful about how it hurt them financially to swap it and how it must be me and not the mask. But since at a "discover scuba" session at a different place I'd had NO problems whatsoever with the mask leaking, I insisted. Is it expected for some people to have to switch things like masks or was I being unreasonable?

Bottom line is I'm trying to figure out if my expectations are unreasonable, if I'm just not cut out for scuba or something in between. Any advice is appreciated.

1. That seems pretty darn short to me. This past winter my LDS started teaching referral classes in six hours of pool time, and most of the instructors agreed that this seemed VERY rushed and didn't allow for much time for practice and gaining comfort in the water. We're going back to a 9 hour (three days of three hours each) format next month. I think most of us would prefer 12, but the pool we use is so unbelievably expensive that we can only afford time in it once a week.

2. For the first pool session, something most of our instructors do is once everyone is in the water, before you start going through skills, a) get everyone to stand with faces in the water, no masks, breathing from the reg and then b) take everyone down to their knees (after masks are replaced, of course!) and just let everyone breath off the scuba unit for a couple of minutes. Then at the end of the pool session, there is some "free swim" time (usually). But yeah...most classes, once the swim test is done, just start with skills.

3. If you bought the mask from them, this just seems silly to me. I can't recall us having any students return masks (maybe because the owner or whoever is working the shop is usually pretty meticulous about making sure the fit is good), but one thing I tell people to sell them on buying gear from the shop and not online is the customer service aspect. That just sounds like lousy service to me. I would stay firm on this until they work something out with you.

The most important thing is you being comfortable in the water. If you aren't yet, let the instructor know. Ask if they or a divemaster can work with you. Diving should be fun, and easy, and if it's not like that for you right now, it's certainly not because you are not cut out for it! I would hate to hear of a diver giving up the sport because of a bad class experience.