The Philosophy of Diver Training

[Kingpatzer]

I . . . Eddie . . . website . . .

(emphasis added)


Again, individual action is insufficient. Actions on sites where primarily divers frequent is insufficient. Where are the agencies? Where is the marketing to the potential consumers?

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

(emphasis added)

Again, individual action is insufficient. Where are the agencies?

I disagree with the premise ... individual actions are what eventually forces change.

Why wait for someone else to "do what's right" ... it starts with each and every one of us.

I don't "crusade" to change the diving world ... it's sufficient to me to make sure that those I train and mentor learn as I can best help them learn. The agencies ... even the one I belong to ... pursue their agenda for business reasons. I'm not concerned about the business of diving ... I'm concerned about the safety of individual divers. Those two goals are not always in harmony with each other.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Walter]

Again, individual action is insufficient. Actions on sites where primarily divers frequent is insufficient. Where are the agencies? Where is the marketing to the potential consumers?

I agree it would be better if differences were available to potential divers.

I originally wrote the comparison for my own use. Discussions about standards come up in which people say things without knowing if what they are saying is actually true. I didn't want to contribute to that, so I wrote the comparison. It gave me a much better concept of just how different standards are from one agency to another.

Eddie wanted to share it. I saw no reason to refuse.

I agree it would be better if it were more likely to be seen by potential divers, but you do what you can do.

 

[Crush]

[removed]

 

[TechBlue]

I disagree with the premise ... individual actions are what eventually forces change.

Why wait for someone else to "do what's right" ... it starts with each and every one of us.

I don't "crusade" to change the diving world ... it's sufficient to me to make sure that those I train and mentor learn as I can best help them learn. The agencies ... even the one I belong to ... pursue their agenda for business reasons. I'm not concerned about the business of diving ... I'm concerned about the safety of individual divers. Those two goals are not always in harmony with each other.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Amen! Well said!

 

[Kingpatzer]

I disagree with the premise ... individual actions are what eventually forces change.

Why wait for someone else to "do what's right" ... it starts with each and every one of us.

I don't "crusade" to change the diving world ... it's sufficient to me to make sure that those I train and mentor learn as I can best help them learn. The agencies ... even the one I belong to ... pursue their agenda for business reasons. I'm not concerned about the business of diving ... I'm concerned about the safety of individual divers. Those two goals are not always in harmony with each other.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Sure individual actions matter, but if the folks care about change then they need to be calling their agencies daily demanding action. Those in leadership positions in the agencies need to be talking with each other and forming coalitions. Those who want change on the scuba discussion boards need to be talking and brainstorming about how to address change.

Now, if people are like you and they just are content to do what they can to ensure the safety of individual divers and are not concerned about the business of diving, then why complain and bash here at all? Demonstrably, in spite of contrary claims, that is not entirely the case for at least some members of this board.

Excepting the very wealthy, individuals can not fund marketing changes alone. Individuals can not afford educational booths at shows alone. Individuals can not host dive experiences at local attractions alone. Individuals can band together and work for common causes and effect large scale meaningful change.

Gandhi wasn't the only person on strike.

 

[DCBC]

That's simply reality.

People choose a product on availability and cost. They have no reason to know anymore than that if they aren't educated prior to shopping for the product or service they desire.

The simple reality is that the majority of the dive shops are exclusively PADI shops. The customer goes (in many cases to the only shop close-by) and purchase the only thing available.

LADA was a Russian auto maker. They were crap cars. If the only dealership in the area was LADA, you shouldn't be surprised to see lots of LADAs driving around. Everyone knows they are poor quality, but they are the only game in-town. PADI is like LADA. Cheap with great salesman and little substance when compared to the competition. Unfortunately in some areas there is no competition.

What gets me is when people are PADI certified and think they have received superior training. Superior content is purposely designed out of the PADI program.

 

[DCBC]

No doubt about it, PADI is the 500lb gorilla in dive training but in the pursuit of the almighty dollar they continue to degenerate and reduce training requirements rather than improve, rather than other agencies having to point out the deficencies of the PADI training programmes (negative marketing is never a good idea) what a refereshing change it would be for PADI to take a good inward look and get back to what this is all about, promoting a wonderful sport and maintaining standards and procedures to ensure that students get the benefits of quality training at every level rather than being hammered from day one with continuing education to squeeze every last possible dime out of them before they give up and in many cases never dive again.

The purpose of PADI's creation was to lower standards and increase the sales of dive equipment. They did that on day one and have continued down the same road ever since. So they really can't "get back to anything." It's in the business plan.

 

[DCBC]

All this weeping and gnashing of teeth regarding PADI is really all for naught. You can rewrite OW standards to a higher level if you want but it's already been done. GUE comes to mind in that regard.

PADI is a for profit company. Like it or not they've had the best business model in diving for years from a corporate standpoint. If a non-profit business model was the best way to go NAUI would be the 1000 lb gorilla in the room and not PADI. After all NAUI arguably had the more thorough entry level program, especially through most of PADI's major growth years when NAUI was non-profit.

There is no need to rewrite standards, you just go back a few years and see what they were. Where do you think GUI got theirs?

Someone might beat PADI to the punch yet. Just start selling certifications on-line. On-line training with no pool or open-water training requirements whatsoever.

 

[Web Monkey]

Sure individual actions matter, but if the folks care about change then they need to be calling their agencies daily demanding action. Those in leadership positions in the agencies need to be talking with each other and forming coalitions. Those who want change on the scuba discussion boards need to be talking and brainstorming about how to address change.

Why bother? Anybody who wants to can sign up to be an instructor/shop for pretty much any other agency and apply whatever standards they deem reasonable once the agency's requirements are met.

PADI is unlikely to change, because they have an amazingly sucessful business model. However if you own/create a successful non-PADI shop in some particular location, PADI just won't be all that relevant in your area, so their standards simply won't make any difference to you.

Terry