The Philosophy of Diver Training

[DCBC]

Now, if people are like you and they just are content to do what they can to ensure the safety of individual divers and are not concerned about the business of diving, then why complain and bash here at all? Demonstrably, in spite of contrary claims, that is not entirely the case for at least some members of this board.

I think that there is a big difference between stating factual truth and bashing. There are people on SB that have bought into the PADI philosophy without ever understanding it. To some, PADI is almost a cult. It can do nothing wrong. It's positive to open the curtains and the facts be seen for what they are. That's not bashing anything.

We are doing something meaningful by discussing the realities of the various training philosophies. One person has already reassessed his path as a result.

 

[TechBlue]

The purpose of PADI's creation was to lower standards and increase the sales of dive equipment. They did that on day one and have continued down the same road ever since. So they really can't "get back to anything." It's in the business plan.

Pretty dismal

I am a little curious as to how this would be dealt with if the comparisons were to be produced by persons outside of the States in a public forum where all parties are invited to participate publicly. If the agency stands behind their standards and procedures all of which are readily available why would they not want to participate Or to follow up on Walters recommendation anybody here from consumer reports?

Who was it that coined the phrase "there is nothing like an educated consumer"?

The various agencies are never going to get in a public pissing contest with each just as much as all insructors are not going to unite and demand improvement.

 

[Kingpatzer]

Why bother? Anybody who wants to can sign up to be an instructor/shop for pretty much any other agency and apply whatever standards they deem reasonable once the agency's requirements are met.

That's not true at all. For agencies that have absolutely zero presence in a state, or mere instructor or two, the costs for being certified in "pretty much any other agency" become unreasonable.

PADI is unlikely to change, because they have an amazingly sucessful business model. However if you own/create a successful non-PADI shop in some particular location, PADI just won't be all that relevant in your area, so their standards simply won't make any difference to you.

And what are the agency's doing to help make that a reality?

 

[Kingpatzer]

The simple reality is that the majority of the dive shops are exclusively PADI shops. The customer goes (in many cases to the only shop close-by) and purchase the only thing available.

And what are the agencies doing to change that?

The situation happened because PADI decided they were going to do the work to make it happen. It wasn't because thousands of shop owners all over the place one day unanimously declared "Hey, let's all be PADI!"

 

[DCBC]

I am a little curious as to how this would be dealt with if the comparisons were to be produced by persons outside of the States in a public forum where all parties are invited to participate publicly. If the agency stands behind their standards and procedures all of which are readily available why would they not want to participate Or to follow up on Walters recommendation anybody here from consumer reports?

I'm surprised that PADI would say anything negative about advertising these standards. They are what they are; I don't believe there is anything "classified" about them.

I actually use to market my training programs by listing the minimum number of training hours required by each organization at that time. They were:

ACUC: 42 hours
CMAS: 42 hours
NAUI: 38 hours
IDEA: 36 hours
PADI: 27 hours

It helped put things into perspective with competing PADI courses advertised at a cheaper rate.

 

[Web Monkey]

That's not true at all. For agencies that have absolutely zero presence in a state, or mere instructor or two, the costs for being certified in "pretty much any other agency" become unreasonable.

???

You're losing me here.

If I open a shop in East Nowhere, affiliated with SCUBA R Us, and teach an "as long as it takes" OW class, how does that change costs? (mine or the students)?

And what are the agency's doing to help make that a reality?

The agencies create training materials and print cards. What kind of stuff are you thinking of?

Terry

 

[JeffG]

I actually use to market my training programs by listing the minimum number of training hours required by each organization at that time. They were:

ACUC: 42 hours
CMAS: 42 hours
NAUI: 38 hours
IDEA: 36 hours
PADI: 27 hours

It helped put things into perspective with competing PADI courses advertised at a cheaper rate.

In our fast food world, this probably helps PADI.

 

[DCBC]

And what are the agencies doing to change that?

They keep certifying instructors. Could they do more? Absolutely. That is a call for the agency to make however.

The situation happened because PADI decided they were going to do the work to make it happen. It wasn't because thousands of shop owners all over the place one day unanimously declared "Hey, let's all be PADI!"

No work at all. They began a campaign to certify instructors from other agencies. I became a PADI Instructor by paying $25 and providing a copy of my ACUC certification. In hindsight, I think this was intelligent on the part of PADI. They captured a huge number of instructors in this manner that started certifying hundreds of thousands of divers. The key to the dive shops was the instructors. They then came out with the PADI Training Center and 5 Star concept afterwords. This was a natural progression. They marketed intelligently.

Nothing is stopping the other agencies from doing this as well, but they are at a disadvantage if it comes to cross-certifying a PADI instructor. PADI's standards are the lowest for all certifications including instructor. It was much more difficult to go from PADI to NAUI (for example) than the other way around. I do think however that agencies are dropping the ball when it comes to cross-certifying instructors from a similar organization.

 

[DCBC]

In our fast food world, this probably helps PADI.

I'd have to agree Jeff. But the student is mistakenly under the impression that he will be taught everything he needs to be safe. This is debatable and why the other hours are higher. More training means greater cost. That's where the competition issue comes into consideration. Couple this with uninformed customers and you've got today's situation.

 

[TechBlue]

I'm surprised that PADI would say anything negative about advertising these standards. They are what they are; I don't believe there is anything "classified" about them.

I actually use to market my training programs by listing the minimum number of training hours required by each organization at that time. They were:

ACUC: 42 hours
CMAS: 42 hours
NAUI: 38 hours
IDEA: 36 hours
PADI: 27 hours

It helped put things into perspective with competing PADI courses advertised at a cheaper rate.

It is not that the standards are classified, from what I undertood from Walter's post they just don't want to do a public apples to apples comparison because they do not look good when the truth comes out.