The Philosophy of Diver Training

Initial Diver Training

  • Divers should be trained to be dependent on a DM/Instructor

    Votes: 3 3.7%
  • Divers should be trained to dive independently.

    Votes: 79 96.3%

  • Total voters
    82
  • Poll closed .

Please register or login

Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.

Benefits of registering include

  • Ability to post and comment on topics and discussions.
  • A Free photo gallery to share your dive photos with the world.
  • You can make this box go away

Joining is quick and easy. Log in or Register now!

Other conclusions could be:

  • They realize how massively unqualified they are and have no idea that they were just cheated out of the training they actually need.
  • They were injured or terrified on their dive and don't like pain or anxiety.

Terry

Given the huge number of students I see come through the stores I AI for who specifically state they are getting certified for one upcoming vacation, often with the stated idea that they will want to take only a day or two for diving, and who have no plans or desires to scuba dive locally, and who really don't know if they'll ever do it again -- it's hard for me to accept that your other conclusions represent a majority of cases.
 
In point of fact the PADI Scuba Diver Course is a left over from when PADI solved their major training fatality problem by disenfranchised their clients and creating the PADI Open Water Diver Course. Now they've dusted it off and and trying to make it fly.

I'm not certain at all to what you are referencing, and I'm not sure that the origins of the course really matter much. It's a pretty bad idea. And that's coming from a guy who is in generally pretty ok with PADI course design as meeting market needs without undue risk levels.
 
Given the huge number of students I see come through the stores I AI for who specifically state they are getting certified for one upcoming vacation, often with the stated idea that they will want to take only a day or two for diving, and who have no plans or desires to scuba dive locally, and who really don't know if they'll ever do it again -- it's hard for me to accept that your other conclusions represent a majority of cases.

Why is it acceptable for dive training to be reduced to catering to people who may only dive once? They have that covered quite nicely here on the island, they have contracts with 20 or 30 hotels, 60 euros for a try dive, 8 or 10 punters one instructor for an hour of his time and that is now how most of the shops conduct their business, way more profitable but now real divers suffer because it is too much trouble to actually cater to them. No wonder the sport isn't going anywhere.
 
It's going where the money (what little there is) is.
 
That's precisely what the PADI Scuba Diver program is.

Another fine example of PADI marketing genius. Take a watered-down program and give it the same name ... but not the same meaning ... as something your competitor offers. People then think there's an equivalence, but that they can get the PADI equivalent for a lot less money and effort.

They are, of course, misled ... which is, of course, PADI's intent.

NAUI Scuba Diver = PADI Open Water Diver
PADI Scuba Diver = something quite a bit less than NAUI Scuba Diver

They did the same thing with Master Diver.

NAUI Master Diver = a real course, with some pretty intensive academics and in-water skills work

PADI Master Diver = $50 for an extra C-card once you've taken a bunch of specialty classes

Nice bit of marketing, but it would be more honest if they either chose a different name or offered an equivalent level of training for the product offering.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)
 
PADI did the same thing with advanced diver also, then proceeded to water down thieir advanced course even further.
 
It's going where the money (what little there is) is.

The business model is typically self serving for PADI but it doesn't do the LDS or the industry much good, if I remember correctly about three years or so ago because sales were stagnant PADI started pushing and promoting dive training on cruises quite heavily, the divers were not even required to purchase or provide their own mask, fins as everything was provided on the ship. So the Hell with supporting local diving let's just chase every penny we can squeeze out of the punters in every possible way and then to help the LDS let's release "EVE" (PADI ecommerce software), because now we can do everything online, take a course buy your gear and book a trip I am waiting for the PADI ACDC "Advanced Couch Diving Course" to be released because that's about the only option that hasn't been taken advantage of yet, think how much money could be generated endless ND dives, download your destination turn on the TV and you're off, snorkels purely optional!
 
Another fine example of PADI marketing genius. ...They are, of course, misled ... which is, of course, PADI's intent.

That's what bothers me as well Bob. All PADI courses are generally inferior to other certification agencies; not in the quality of instruction given, rather the quantity. So even when they stand head to head, a PADI instructor can offer a supposedly similar program for less, which makes competition hard to begin with. When PADI downgrades the training even further, it becomes even more frustrating.

It's too bad that the other certification organizations doesn't get together, make-up a chart of the real differences between all of the training programs and collectively advertise it to the public. I cannot help but believe that the average guy who walks into a dive shop has no idea about what he's buying and how this may affect the safety and security of his family.
 
The discussion of marketing success is actually an important consideration. For all the PADI bashing going on, how many divers on this board started with PADI? Even those who changed agencies and continued their training on other paths got in the water because PADI has a business model that put them pretty much everywhere potential divers live.

Folks might try to argue that the other agencies would fill the gaps if PADI weren't around. But the fact is they didn't. And most of the agencies people are point to saying "look you can do a quality course, see how much better it is" don't have meaningful market penetration in massive geographical areas.

Even if we grant that PADI's quality is inherently insufficient for recreational divers who only intend to dive a few times in their lives in pristine conditions -- a contention I am not quick to believe is a necessary result of following PADI standards nor which I find to be supported by observed risk levels -- the fact remains that of those who dive, either with regularity in local sports or as frequent vacationers, the majority started with PADI.

Do numbers excuse poor quality if those standards are an inherent result of PADI standards? Of course not, that would be rather spurious argumentation. But it does raise the more important question -- instead of bitching about the current state what can be done to change it?

The simple fact is that localized individual action will not be sufficient. The instructors here who are most vehemently anti-PADI admit that they serve a small segment of their local market. They don't have much impact. And while they contend they are fine with that, the postings on this board suggest that such is not the case. They are clearly discontent, but are in some way accepting their inability to effect the change their desire.

So what can those whose agencies are simply not doing anything close to what is necessary to address the problem, if it really is a problem? As far as I can see they are doing little to nothing that is meaningful!

The agencies complain about PADI controlling the market, but they do not band together to market higher quality dive education to the non-diving public. They bitch about their minor role in DEMA but don't simply walk out and force the manufacturers to consider how to address a customer base focused on quality education. They aren't growing instructor bases in areas that are under served. They aren't effectively enticing stores to change over from PADI to these other training options. They aren't making their presence known at local and regional dive shows. And the list goes on.

With all the complaints there is a true dearth of action by the agencies themselves to address the problem.

Where are the complaints focusing on the failure of those who claim to care but are failing to act in a unified, comprehensive and effective manner to address the issue?

So in some sense I find the whole discussion entirely misplaced. If PADI is the problem, then the other agencies have to be the solution. But they choose not to act!

EDIT: I see as I was posting this, DCBC posted the same observation. At least we agree on something!
 
I cannot help but believe that the average guy who walks into a dive shop has no idea about what he's buying and how this may affect the safety and security of his family.

That's simply reality.

People choose a product on availability and cost. They have no reason to know anymore than that if they aren't educated prior to shopping for the product or service they desire.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

Back
Top Bottom