The Philosophy of Diver Training

[Jim Lapenta]

There are two instructors in Minnestoa based on the list I have now which I admit I need to update. Been 2 months. I was going to respond earlier but my computer at work crapped itself. Seeing how this thread is degenerating into an English lesson ( having flashbacks to Mrs Blaney and her varicose veins!!!!) I'll try to pick up where I left off. While we are indeed hoping and experiencing continued growth, spending money that could be better used to add more materials, update our web presence, and take care of those who do some work for SEI and the betterment of the agency (sometimes without pay) is a higher priority. Also why is breaking into new markets in big ways better? We do not want high numbers of instructors. We want high quality instructors.

Having 100 instructors in a state does not always translate into a good thing if the quality is not there. Heck having 1 or 2 very good instructors is better for the students and the agency as a whole than having 10 mediocre ones.

One other issue is indeed the lack of an online database for the consumer. It;s an issue that is also being addressed but again priorities. We are at least endeavoring to attend regional shows. Our CEO was at OWU and will be at BTS. He and I will also be at Scubafest in Columbus,Ohio. That show was a great one for us last year. We also were the only agency that had a dedicated booth. Would we like to do more regional ones. Yes. But do you have any idea what a booth costs at one of these larger venues? BTS for a non profit for one of their smaller booths is 1400-1600 for the weekend. OWU is not much better. Scubafest on the other hand is a fraction of that and is a show for divers. We also have the fact that the people who attend these and represent us do not get paid for it. I get to write off the cost of it for myself but the only compensation I get is lunch and most important the contacts I make.

I'd also like to note that we are not the only ones who do not have an online instructor database. I'd like to ask you King, what will your listing say on the PADI website if you have a falling out with your shop and decide to teach as an independent? Here's a clue- Nothing. Because you won't have one. PADI does not support independent instructors in that way. If you are not affiliated with a shop you will not have a listing or get any referrals. Nor will they refer anyone to you who calls them looking for training. I know because I received an email through my website from someone who was looking for an independent PADI instructor because he did not want to deal with the shop in his area and wanted private lessons on his schedule. I didn't ask why, didn't care. He saw that I was a PADI DM and thought I could help him out. Because maybe I had access to info he did not.

I make it a point to respond to every query that comes to me through my site. I have made friends all over the country doing this because my site somehow came up in their search. But anyway I looked on the site and lo and behold no independents. He did not want to go thru a shop. I called PADI and the person I spoke with told me that they only refer to shops, excuse me "dive centers", I said ok and hung up. Not my problem. I informed him of this and he asked me if we had one. I checked and we did not. So what did I do. I ran quick check and found two NAUI instructors for him to choose from! I now have a new friend.

Also what kind of support will PADI give you as an indie. Will they sell you materials at the same rate as a shop? We will. Buy 2 OW setups or 5. You'll pay the same as one who buys 50. We are all equal in the eyes of HQ and just as important. We also have equal access to any board member, our training director, or our CEO. I send in 2 or 3 certs on Monday and have cards in hand usually by Friday. Is this due to the smaller volume? Of course but the point is I have them and I am just as much a priority as the instructor sending in 25 from his/her university class. I like teaching for a smaller agency and chose to do so after having come up thru PADI. And for the reasons stated as well as my own moral and ethical beliefs. I'm not in this for the money. I want to train the best divers I can and not be held back by restrictions as to what I can and cannot offer them. Again if those restrictions cause you to turn out a diver that you would have reservations about allowing your loved one to dive with, why would you choose to teach under them?

 

[Kingpatzer]

There are two instructors in Minnestoa based on the list I have now which I admit I need to update.

Could you PM me who they are? I'd love to see if they'd let me sit in on a class and observe.

 

[DCBC]

Regarding training philosophy, I came across this article:

CDNN :: Unsafe at any Depth - PADI Scuba Diver

If the quoted figure is correct (that 70% of divers do not take further training after initial certification), it is applicable to the conversation.

 

[Kingpatzer]

Given the current prevalent belief that the average vacation diver goes on a vacation where they dive, and then often do not dive again in their lifetime, it's not really that surprising.

Indeed, it suggests that a short course that meets the consumer demand is more appropriate precisely because the divers are not on average investing in a lifelong hobby but are merely obtaining entry to a one-time vacation activity.

One point I find interesting, is that this is a case when PADI does say "Hey, professionals, use your judgement" in terms of diver ratios, they get criticized for it. So it's wrong to write inflexible standards and it's wrong to rely on instructor judgment if your PADI. But if GUE writes strict guidelines about something like what length your primary regulator hose must be for a recreational diver, that's a good thing, and if SEI allows the instructor to decide how many students should be under their observation that's a good thing.

How is it not agency bashing when they are being criticized both for having standards that can't be deviated from and having areas where instructor judgment is pertinent?

Now all of that said, I am opposed to the Scuba Diver course. I do not believe that this short of a course with limited OW dives provides the instructor enough time to create a safe enough diver. I am a pragmatist when it comes to diver education in that I do believe everyone has to draw a line at what they perceive to be the real risks associated with diving and the level of training sufficient for entry into recreational diving, combined with their philosophy about continuing education. This one happens to be across my line of what is acceptable.

 

[Thalassamania]

Given the current prevalent belief that the average vacation diver goes on a vacation where they dive, and then often do not dive again in their lifetime, it's not really that surprising.

Indeed, it suggests that a short course that meets the consumer demand is more appropriate precisely because the divers are not on average investing in a lifelong hobby but are merely obtaining entry to a one-time vacation activity.

I think a short course that requires close supervision for dives would be great. My problem is with telling people that complete the current PADI O/W course that they're ready to dive with a similarly qualified diver under conditions similar to those they trained in. The fact is, they are not, and they don't want to. Design a program for supervised dives, with different requirements for different depths and conditions.

 

[Kingpatzer]

I think a short course that requires close supervision for dives would be great. My problem is with telling people that complete the current PADI O/W course that they're ready to dive with a similarly qualified diver under conditions similar to those they trained in. The fact is, they are not, and they don't want to. Design a program for supervised dives, with different requirements for different depths and conditions.

That's precisely what the PADI Scuba Diver program is.

Though (and I obviously committed my edits after your response) I'm of the view that this particular attempt is too short.

 

[Web Monkey]

Given the current prevalent belief that the average vacation diver goes on a vacation where they dive, and then often do not dive again in their lifetime, it's not really that surprising.

Indeed, it suggests that a short course that meets the consumer demand is more appropriate precisely because the divers are not on average investing in a lifelong hobby but are merely obtaining entry to a one-time vacation activity.

Other conclusions could be:

• They realize how massively unqualified they are and have no idea that they were just cheated out of the training they actually need.
• They were injured or terrified on their dive and don't like pain or anxiety.

Terry

 

[TechBlue]

Or you could just use mantras like "whatever you do don't hold your breath" say it 10 times and you are set, make sure you and your buddy do your mantras before entry and all will be well-of course please leave your wallet and car keys where we can find them

 

[Thalassamania]

That's precisely what the PADI Scuba Diver program is.

Though (and I obviously committed my edits after your response) I'm of the view that this particular attempt is too short.

In point of fact the PADI Scuba Diver Course is a left over from when PADI solved their major training fatality problem by disenfranchised their clients and creating the PADI Open Water Diver Course. Now they've dusted it off and and trying to make it fly.

 

[TCDiver1]

Other conclusions could be:

• They realize how massively unqualified they are and have no idea that they were just cheated out of the training they actually need.
• They were injured or terrified on their dive and don't like pain or anxiety.

Terry

Another might be they found scuba was not their cup of tea.