opinions on air integrated computers?

[gcbryan]

WRONG

At least with my Oceanic VT Pro AI computer which constantly monitors tank pressure (as well as the other important stuff) and gives remaining dive time based on the most limiting factor..which is almost always gas pressure (in my case). I'm constantly amazed at how much remaining dive time I "get back" simply by ascending a relatively short distance.

That's the point...you shouldn't be amazed...you should already realize that.

 

[idocsteve]

If you want to stay at 100fsw until your computer tells you you have no more air so you then go up to 50 fsw and it now tells you that you now have 20 minutes that's fine but it doesn't seem like the best way to dive to me.

So...you think that the better way is to um...whip out some tables and figure out how long you can stay at 100 feet, and then use those same tables and figure out how long you can stay at 50 feet depending on how long you plan to stay at 100 feet...and then when you dive make sure you precisely stick to those figures otherwise you'll be whipping out the tables and slate mid dive and spending valuable time doing math rather than looking at sea creatures.

Or...your computer can do the work for you, constantly updating the data "on the fly" as you dive...and just like in your car, or in an airplane, or in your thermostat, let modern technology work for you because we don't live in caves anymore using fires to light and heat our homes.

I could have a computer in my car that told me how long my gas would last at my present speed as opposed to just having a gas guage but I don't find that particularly useful either.

A gas gauge isn't going to tell you how long your gas is going to last, it only tells you much you've got in the tank. Think about that for a minute.

 

[gcbryan]

So...you think that the better way is to um...whip out some tables and figure out how long you can stay at 100 feet, and then use those same tables and figure out how long you can stay at 50 feet depending on how long you plan to stay at 100 feet...and then when you dive make sure you precisely stick to those figures otherwise you'll be whipping out the tables and slate mid dive and spending valuable time doing math rather than looking at sea creatures.

Or...your computer can do the work for you, constantly updating the data "on the fly" as you dive...and just like in your car, or in an airplane, or in your thermostat, let modern technology work for you because we don't live in caves anymore using fires to light and heat our homes.

I've said nothing about not having a computer. I said I didn't see the need for AI. I have a computer. I don't refer to it very often however. If I were to just use time and depth I wouldn't need to whip out a table to be able to complete a dive.

For the most part if you are at 60 fsw and shallower your air is going to be the limiting factor and below that all you need to know are a few numbers.

Everyone realizes that there are computers and electronics in our everyday lives. You are really not telling anyone anything with these constantly repeated remarks. It's still fair to say in most regards however that computers are an aid in our everyday lives rather than something that we are blindly reliant on.

A gas gauge isn't going to tell you how long your gas is going to last, it only tells you much you've got in the tank. Think about that for a minute.

It doesn't take me a minute to think about that. Maybe that's the problem.
I know that my gas gauge doesn't tell me how long my gas is going to last and yet that and my brain is all that I have and still...I don't run out...see how that works.

 

[idocsteve]

That's the point...you should be amazed...you should already realize that.

I think you meant to say "shouldn't" and while I get your point, there's a difference between going through the entire dive planning process whereby you calculate surface air consumption, planned depths and bottom times, and getting a fairly good idea of how long you'll be able to stay down for based on those numbers...as compared to actually jumping in, and then seeing how the computer suddenly puts another 15 minutes on your dive clock because you haven't stayed at your maximum depth as figured during your predive planning...as we know, in general, you aren't going to make adjustments that will give you credit for diving anything less than a square profile and those differences can be quite significant. Especially when you've got real time updates right there on your wrist that you can easily see continuously during your dive.

If you haven't experienced using an AI computer, you just might want to try it.

That's all I'm saying

 

[Doc Harry]

What small screen? My Wisdom 2's screen is big enough to play IMAX movie on.

It doesn't show remaining air time AND NDL time. It shows ONE remaining bottom time depending on which takes precedence - NDL, O2 (Nitrox dive) or remaining air.

It calculates your air time based on your consumption at any depth and any rate. If you were kicking against a 2-knots current at 60-ft depth, it will tell you how much bottom time you have because you're now sucking air like a locomotive. If you were to rise to 30-ft and the current drops off to zero, then it will recalculate bottom time based on your new air consumption rate.

My integrated computer does most of those calculations, too. It is a little slower and not as accurate to as many decimal places as a Suunto or Wisdom, but it sure is a lot cheaper, and I never have to worry about leaving it at home or replacing the battery:

 

[idocsteve]

My integrated computer does all those calculations, too. It is a little slower and not as accurate to as many decimal places as a Suunto or Wisdom, but it sure is a lot cheaper

Your brain is worth less than my dive computer?

Damn. I'm speechless.

 

[Doc Harry]

Your brain is worth less than my dive computer?

Damn. I'm speechless.

"Costs" less, not "worth" less! Or at least I hope it's not worth less! Never know!

 

[gcbryan]

I think you meant to say "shouldn't" and while I get your point, there's a difference between going through the entire dive planning process whereby you calculate surface air consumption, planned depths and bottom times, and getting a fairly good idea of how long you'll be able to stay down for based on those numbers...as compared to actually jumping in, and then seeing how the computer suddenly puts another 15 minutes on your dive clock because you haven't stayed at your maximum depth as figured during your predive planning...as we know, in general, you aren't going to make adjustments that will give you credit for diving anything less than a square profile and those differences can be quite significant. Especially when you've got real time updates right there on your wrist that you can easily see continuously during your dive.

If you haven't experienced using an AI computer, you just might want to try it.

That's all I'm saying

If I go to 100 fsw and don't stay as long as I'd planned and then come up to 50 fsw all I have to do is look at my spg and I instantly see how much I have. As long as I don't hit a minimum reserve number for that depth (rock bottom or whatever terminology you want to use) I don't need to necessarily know how many minutes I have.

If I do want to know it's easy to calculate as well. If you have a .50 SAC rate then at 100fsw you have 2 cu ft/min and at 33 fsw you have 1 cu ft/min. Figure out what that is in terms of psi for your tank so perhaps it's 15 psi/min. This is something that you've already determined so it's not math to be done on the fly.

So if you're at 4 atmospheres (99fsw) then you're using 60psi/min so a 10 minute stay will use 600psi. If you go to 3 atmospheres (66fsw) it's 45psi/min and a 10 minutes stay uses 450 psi.

It's not that hard and not necessary to figure out anytime when just looking at the spg will do (which is most of the time). If's it's a situation where you do want that kind of estimate then just figure what atmosphere depth you are closest to and think in terms of 10 minutes and this is one way to make the math easy to do while underwater and it gives you useful numbers.

After while it's like anything else...you kind of know the figures for the normal range of times/depths for the dives you usually do.

It's the same with the NDL times. Remember the NDL for 100 fsw and for 60 fsw and make adjustments from there. Much less than 60fsw and it doesn't matter anyway.

If you dive like this the computer is mainly for depth and time and the rest of the info is just an aid in case you do make a mistake or are having an off day. In this scenario, the computer is barely needed and AI is just not needed or wanted at all (by me that is).

I'm not going to buy an AI computer so that I can say that I've had one and didn't like it. I've looked at buddies AI computers underwater a few times.

If you like it that's no problem either...it's just not the greatest thing since sliced bread and for anyone who thinks that it is my point was simply maybe you should be a little more aware of how easy the physics of being underwater is, how it all comes together and the computer (especially AI) will become a little less amazing.

None of this has to be exact from air usage to NDL's. Just err on the side of caution. If you stay 20 minutes at 100 fsw you still don't have to get out of the water...just get to 30 fsw and stay there or shallower as long as you want for instance.

 

[mrdohc]

I have everything apart from a computer now basically. Well a dry suit.
In the uk the vyper air goes for £349 with the transmitter 200 on top of. The d9 is then 1,000 for the computer and transmitter.
Now the d9 is just a wristwatch style computer that is what you are paying the extra money for.
I have not heard one bad thing about the vyper air, just wondering on the transmitter!

i will definitely not go for a D9. for the $ spent, oceanic oc1 is better off. you CANNOT replace battery on your D9 yourself. always have to send back to Suunto. Imagine the low battery indicator turns on a couple days before your dive trip not to mention about the extra cost to get battery replace.
vyper air is a good dc, transmitter is not bad. mind you when using transmitter, occasionally you will lose the transmission, no matter which brand you use, however you should get back the reading in a very short time. my suggestion is to carry a mini analogue spg with you all time as back up. never trust electronic 100%.
note: this apply to recreational diving only

 

[fnfalman]

My integrated computer does most of those calculations, too. It is a little slower and not as accurate to as many decimal places as a Suunto or Wisdom, but it sure is a lot cheaper, and I never have to worry about leaving it at home or replacing the battery:

How well is your integrated working when you're narced?