Breaking news from the whale wars
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Anna C
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After reading through this entire thread, it seems to me that the important conversation that should be happening with regards to not only this accident, but issues regarding whaling and 'whale research' by the ICR are being bypassed in order to provoke each other and insert well placed but entirely useless comments on the topic. Does it really matter whether or not someone is from Japan, Norway, or the United States as long as we are independently thinking individuals unswayed by ulterior motives? We are too busy looking at the little picture. We need to be discussing the bigger picture and the affects that overfishing and overwhaling have on our oceans and consequently us and life on this planet. Somewhere around 90% of our oceans apex predatory fish populations have been decimated. Whale and dolphin populations are also on rapid decline and if we don't do anything about it now before its too late then what?
Japan says their research is to see the population sizes and behaviors of whales in our oceans. How can you accurately get statistics on whale population sizes if you are killing and extracting them from the oceans and depleting populations as you are doing so? How can you research behavior while chasing after them in a huge, loud, fishing vessel? You think that that is how a whale would behave under normal circumstances while not being harassed? We could learn so much more from whale populations by observing them in the wild in their natural habitat and keeping them alive.
Another response I've been hearing is the 'its part of the culture' response which is just insanity. Part of our culture many years ago was cannibalism. Do we still partake in that activity? Of course not. Majority of the population of Japan as well as that of many other countries including the United States doesn't even really know about what is going on with the oceans and fish and cetacean populations. Take dolphin slaughter in Taiji... (im sorry is slaughter too abrupt a word for you?) If you dont know about this i highly recommend the movie 'The Cove' to help to enlighten you. Dolphins are being corralled and taken into a spot in Taiji where some are taken for exportation for swim with dolphin programs and the like, but the other are chased into a cove and massacred. They use the meat of these dolphins in school lunch programs and sell it for profit to supermarkets who then market that meat as highly desired whale products when it is actually dolphin containing insanely high and toxic levels of mercury. Japans excuse is that its part of their culture. In interviews done on the streets of Japans major cities, residents were appalled at the actions that were going on once they were made aware of them, and said that the consumption of dolphin meat was in no way a part of their Japanese cultural heritage.
The IWC has stipulations for whale research and sustainability but what is going on in the southern ocean is not sustainable. Too many whales are being taken including ones that are on the endangered species list, such as blue whales and humpback whales. Samples taken in Japanese fish markets have had traces of these two species as well as other endangered species of whales as well as dolphin. In addition, more than a couple times, Japanese whaling fleets have been found whaling in designated whale sanctuaries in the southern ocean. Thats like going to Yosemite and killing a bunch of peregrine falcons. The research that should be done on whales is that which can only be done with them alive, such as looking at their levels of intelligence, song, reproduction, etc.
Unsustainable whaling (which in my opinion is what is happening now) needs to be stopped. Now. I don't agree with alot of what the crew of the Sea Shepard and Paul Watson do or have done, but at least they are taking action, which is alot more than I can say about any other organization. Someone else earlier said "Any press is good press"... and I agree to an extent in situations such as the encounter between the Nissin Maru and the Ady Gil, but with a different stand. If things like this are happing and getting in the press, then we are at least making the population aware of the situation. Keeping people ignorant of these situations is essentially lying to us. And I dunno about the rest of you, but Im tired of being lied to by my government. I don't think that violence and playing chicken in whaling vessels in the southern ocean is a very appropriate way of finding a solution to the problem. But i do give them Kudos for stepping up and doing something.
For an interview done with Captain Watson about the encounter, and HIS point of view on it, can be heard/seen on a news story on youtube: YouTube - Sea Shepherd's Ady Gil attacked by Japanese Whaling Vessel
Im not saying that he is in the right. I'm just saying that the whaling fleets aren't even close to being so. And as long as they are down there, there is going to be an increasing amount of press and increasing amounts questioning about their apparent "Research"
Japan says their research is to see the population sizes and behaviors of whales in our oceans. How can you accurately get statistics on whale population sizes if you are killing and extracting them from the oceans and depleting populations as you are doing so? How can you research behavior while chasing after them in a huge, loud, fishing vessel? You think that that is how a whale would behave under normal circumstances while not being harassed? We could learn so much more from whale populations by observing them in the wild in their natural habitat and keeping them alive.
Another response I've been hearing is the 'its part of the culture' response which is just insanity. Part of our culture many years ago was cannibalism. Do we still partake in that activity? Of course not. Majority of the population of Japan as well as that of many other countries including the United States doesn't even really know about what is going on with the oceans and fish and cetacean populations. Take dolphin slaughter in Taiji... (im sorry is slaughter too abrupt a word for you?) If you dont know about this i highly recommend the movie 'The Cove' to help to enlighten you. Dolphins are being corralled and taken into a spot in Taiji where some are taken for exportation for swim with dolphin programs and the like, but the other are chased into a cove and massacred. They use the meat of these dolphins in school lunch programs and sell it for profit to supermarkets who then market that meat as highly desired whale products when it is actually dolphin containing insanely high and toxic levels of mercury. Japans excuse is that its part of their culture. In interviews done on the streets of Japans major cities, residents were appalled at the actions that were going on once they were made aware of them, and said that the consumption of dolphin meat was in no way a part of their Japanese cultural heritage.
The IWC has stipulations for whale research and sustainability but what is going on in the southern ocean is not sustainable. Too many whales are being taken including ones that are on the endangered species list, such as blue whales and humpback whales. Samples taken in Japanese fish markets have had traces of these two species as well as other endangered species of whales as well as dolphin. In addition, more than a couple times, Japanese whaling fleets have been found whaling in designated whale sanctuaries in the southern ocean. Thats like going to Yosemite and killing a bunch of peregrine falcons. The research that should be done on whales is that which can only be done with them alive, such as looking at their levels of intelligence, song, reproduction, etc.
Unsustainable whaling (which in my opinion is what is happening now) needs to be stopped. Now. I don't agree with alot of what the crew of the Sea Shepard and Paul Watson do or have done, but at least they are taking action, which is alot more than I can say about any other organization. Someone else earlier said "Any press is good press"... and I agree to an extent in situations such as the encounter between the Nissin Maru and the Ady Gil, but with a different stand. If things like this are happing and getting in the press, then we are at least making the population aware of the situation. Keeping people ignorant of these situations is essentially lying to us. And I dunno about the rest of you, but Im tired of being lied to by my government. I don't think that violence and playing chicken in whaling vessels in the southern ocean is a very appropriate way of finding a solution to the problem. But i do give them Kudos for stepping up and doing something.
For an interview done with Captain Watson about the encounter, and HIS point of view on it, can be heard/seen on a news story on youtube: YouTube - Sea Shepherd's Ady Gil attacked by Japanese Whaling Vessel
Im not saying that he is in the right. I'm just saying that the whaling fleets aren't even close to being so. And as long as they are down there, there is going to be an increasing amount of press and increasing amounts questioning about their apparent "Research"
ohh and kill any seals lately?
Did you here I was in canadia, and they let me back out, actually I think they threw me out . . .
Did you here I was in canadia, and they let me back out, actually I think they threw me out . . .
IMHO, if the Japanese were only taking Minke Whales, and only enough FOR RESEARCH, there would be a much smaller opposition.
Bringing your fish eating comment into the discussion kind of puts the hypocrisy of the Japanese stand into question; either this whale hunting is for food or it is as they "claim" for research?
440 whales, for research, can YOU do the math?
The Japanese research organization ICR, or should I say "ICK' is a sham scientific institution designed to delude the public with a "legitimacy" stamp.
The total take on whales is only a miniscule sector of the colossal Japanese global fishing industry. Sadly, the Japanese do not like to lose face amid the global pressure to cease whaling. This reluctance to say "OK" I need to shift gears is a component of this scientific whaling farce. Apart from some "die hard" Japanese nationalists most Japanese don't really like whale meat. That being said - your average Japanese person doesn't gives a sh_t about whales anyway being the isolationist nation that it is.
X
Anna, a great post and I couldn't agree more with your sentiment above.
What evidence do you have to show that the minke whale population is in rapid decline? Most of the research I have seen shows the opposite. Can you link to some research articles (preferably independent, not from Greenpeace or Sea Shepherd) that show this is in fact true?
For other apex predators - I think it is a separate (and entirely worthwhile discussion) but a sidetrack to the Japanese whaling discussions.
Well - if you are taking 440 creatures annually from a population of over half a million then you're going to have no effect at all (in my view).
I have never heard the dolphin slaughter is part of the culture. Most of the fisherman involved say it is to reduce pressure on the fishing stock. Slaughtering the dolphins means they eat less fish. I completely agree that feeding dolphin meat with high levels of mercury is awful and needs urgent action to raise awareness and stop.
Again, I would ask for the research or statistics to back up your opinions. Once we have those in the public forum it is a lot easier for all involved to make their own judgements on the sustainability.
I feel we're far past the point where we need to kill animals to research them. Sure it was necessary in the days of John James Audubon (A shotgun was one of his most important tools) or even in Ed Rickett's days when they fried the fish after they studied them. Especially with a species so large and easy to track as whales are.
Bear in mind I don't have anything against killing animals, I've been known to take a few myself every once in while.I just don't see it as necessary in this case.
Bear in mind I don't have anything against killing animals, I've been known to take a few myself every once in while.I just don't see it as necessary in this case.
JKPAO
Contributor
This is just my $.02!
To see who was moving and who was not, look at the electronics, IE track paths.time patterns.
From the video I saw,(definite wake along the BATMOBILE that is not dead in the water) some dummies pulled in front of a very large ship! I do not care what was going on, it is an act of terrorism. The captain Watson is it?...... His statement is pure bull ship!
Two wrongs don't make a right!
See you topside! John
To see who was moving and who was not, look at the electronics, IE track paths.time patterns.
From the video I saw,(definite wake along the BATMOBILE that is not dead in the water) some dummies pulled in front of a very large ship! I do not care what was going on, it is an act of terrorism. The captain Watson is it?...... His statement is pure bull ship!
Two wrongs don't make a right!
See you topside! John
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