Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
Here is another question though. Who's responsibility is the training? The governing body, the instructor, the equip manufactures, the dive ops, or the diver? I ended up doing two OWD courses, one at a resort, one at the local dive shop. It was hard to see the similarity between the two courses, but at the end of the day, it is still my neck. Neither course outright lied to me, one just emphasised the danger and need for information more.
As a society I find we look for more instant gratification, especially amongst the young and the rich. And, we search for someone else to teach us. I actually go back and fault our education systems for the situation with diver training, and the problem I see with education is lack of funds (why I quit being a teacher). We seem more interested in presenting ciriculum instead of concentrating on student learning. The current OWD course is a good example. Anyone who can memorize the answers from the chapter summaries can pass the test. The pool skills are relatively simple. No where do we actually test the students comprehension. For example can you as an instructor fail me if I pass the test, but actually have no comprehension of what DCS is? (I just know that my instructor says its bad, but they also said beer was bad too, so I dont really believe them) All the test did was prove I could memorize the chapter summaries.
We fear giving people the power to subjectively grade someone because we fear personal agendas and prejidices. I would rather see more money spent on instructor training and subjective grading of instructors and students than money spent on standardization. BUT that removes control from governing bodies like PADI, and that is something they are not going to go for.
Why learn to buddy breath when you have octo?
Why are there different skill sets for commercial divers and recreational divers? Easy: one is a profession, and one is a hobby.
You don't expect civilian gun owners to have the same marksmanship & tactical training as a soldier would, do you?
A certain skill sets are no longer required because they're no longer needed. I'm a degreed engineer and I cannot use a slide rule to save my life. Does that mean I'm not as well trained as my predecessor?
I would be interested on your thoughts on what you think the OW training should be?Octopus regulators have been known to fail. They are dragged around in the mud, not serviced as regularly as they should be. I have found a hole in a diaphram of my regulator on the pre-dive check. I'm a regulator technician and look after my personal gear better than most. If I hadn't checked (and found) the defective part and my buddy needed it, unless he knew how to buddy breath (I wont dive with you unless you can) he would have been SOL. The answer to your question is that mechanical parts fail; shi* happens.
Both are human and both can drown in water. Both can experience DCS and AGE. As far as the basics are concerned, they are the same. The only major differences in the diving is the equipment they eventually employ, the conditions and depth.
Would you say the samething about yourself driving your car. That you should have the same training and cost as a CDL truck driver which is 6 months or more and upwards toward $8000.00.
In some cases you would think that the recreational diver should be better trained. Commercially when I do a decompression dive, I have a decompression chamber on-site, an unlimited supply of gas, communication with the surface and a team of experienced people backing me up including a Paramedic and often a Hyperbaric Physician on-site (saturation). Solo divers have nobody and a buddy pair has the victim and one person who may not be trained to help. Think about it.
However, I would think a solo diver isnt diving black water, deep water, muti-tasking, mixed gases as much as a commercial diver. And the commercial industry has OSHA regulations to abide by which is more than likely why they have to have because of the OSHA standards and to stay below thier Nat'l average of injuries for thier sic codes
If they hold a gun, they should know enough not to shoot themselves in the foot.
Just because you have not shot yourself in the foot with a gun does not mean you are properly trained with a firearm.
If your life depended upon you getting an answer and the power went out, I'd have to say that you are not as well trained as your predecessor. My proof? You would die; he would not.
Who doesn't service the octo? When you get your reg serviced, everything attached to it gets refurbished.Octopus regulators have been known to fail. They are dragged around in the mud, not serviced as regularly as they should be. I have found a hole in a diaphram of my regulator on the pre-dive check. I'm a regulator technician and look after my personal gear better than most. If I hadn't checked (and found) the defective part and my buddy needed it, unless he knew how to buddy breath (I wont dive with you unless you can) he would have been SOL. The answer to your question is that mechanical parts fail; shi* happens.
Commercial divers go into decompression and saturation dive conditions. Rec divers do not. Commercial divers and their employers are subjected to OSHA safety requirements, rec divers aren't subjected to any sort of regulations.Both are human and both can drown in water. Both can experience DCS and AGE. As far as the basics are concerned, they are the same. The only major differences in the diving is the equipment they eventually employ, the conditions and depth.
In some cases you would think that the recreational diver should be better trained. Commercially when I do a decompression dive, I have a decompression chamber on-site, an unlimited supply of gas, communication with the surface and a team of experienced people backing me up including a Paramedic and often a Hyperbaric Physician on-site (saturation). Solo divers have nobody and a buddy pair has the victim and one person who may not be trained to help. Think about it.
Basic marksmanship is a lot different than tactical training. Just like OW and AOW for rec divers are lot different than deco diving, penetration diving, underwater working, et al. Same thing with civilian gun owners and soldiers. A civilian shooter needs to know which end of the barrel the bullet comes out and where to point it. A soldier needs to know how to shoot the gun while hanging upside down on a rappelling rope, or on the run while assaulting a machine gun nest.If they hold a gun, they should know enough not to shoot themselves in the foot.
If the power went out, then so went the light. I doubt that my better trained predecessor who can operate a slide rule can use one in the dark. Not unless he/she has night vision goggles on and then he probably can't see the fine lines on a slide rule anyway not to mention lack of depth perception.If your life depended upon you getting an answer and the power went out, I'd have to say that you are not as well trained as your predecessor. My proof? You would die; he would not.
I would be interested on your thoughts on what you think the OW training should be?
Would you say the samething about yourself driving your car. That you should have the same training and cost as a CDL truck driver which is 6 months or more and upwards toward $8000.00.
However, I would think a solo diver isnt diving black water, deep water, muti-tasking, mixed gases as much as a commercial diver. And the commercial industry has OSHA regulations to abide by which is more than likely why they have to have because of the OSHA standards and to stay below thier Nat'l average of injuries for thier sic codes
Just because you have not shot yourself in the foot with a gun does not mean you are properly trained with a firearm.
I wonder if I need to learn how to penetrate a hostile harbor and plant limpet mines or do recons or take out sentries in order to be held to the higher standards of military divers? And where can I get this training without having to go to the US Navy BUDS program or the US Army Combat Swimmer program?
You miss the point.