Diving Education Today

[MaxBottomtime]

Times change. Can you imagine everyone turning the crank in front of their car to start the engine each time? How about writing these posts in code only? If not for the warm water resorts and agencies creating millions of new divers over the past three decades we wouldn't have the advanced gear, information or opportunities we now have.
I was trained back when we still used buddy breathing, running up and down stairs in full gear before swimming 500 yards to tow a diver in. I had a feeling of accomplishment after getting certified, but there were many parts of my training that have become obsolete. Most divers have a backup regulator, so buddy breathing is not necessary. Handing off your primary is so much more efficient and easy. I have never been in a situation when getting into the lotus position under water was warranted. I've never dropped my gear in the water accidently and had to go down, put it all together and get into it before surfacing. In the three decades I've been diving I've never even had my mask off under water. All of these things were required in my training, yet serve no purpose in recreational diving. I believe training is just fine for recreational divers.

 

[DCBC]

Times change. Can you imagine everyone turning the crank in front of their car to start the engine each time? How about writing these posts in code only? If not for the warm water resorts and agencies creating millions of new divers over the past three decades we wouldn't have the advanced gear, information or opportunities we now have.

Thanks for your opinion. Yes, change has brought about progress in some areas. In others, time has not been so kind to either mankind or the planet.

Grant us the serenity to accept the things we cannot change, the courage to change the things we can, and the wisdom to know the difference.

I have never been in a situation when getting into the lotus position under water was warranted. I've never dropped my gear in the water accidently and had to go down, put it all together and get into it before surfacing. In the three decades I've been diving I've never even had my mask off under water. All of these things were required in my training, yet serve no purpose in recreational diving. I believe training is just fine for recreational divers.

You are indeed fortunate that your experiences have been so limited.

 

[SolarStorm]

DCBC, I agree that the goal should be 0 "accidents" realistically that is not possible. The most difficult thing to draw is "the line". What is an acceptable accident rate. I would posit that the current accident rate is "acceptable" in that the training boom hasnt been lowered. IE, the lawyers are not making enough money to be hired by the accidentees to cause the people doing the training to improve.

Here is another question though. Who's responsibility is the training? The governing body, the instructor, the equip manufactures, the dive ops, or the diver? I ended up doing two OWD courses, one at a resort, one at the local dive shop. It was hard to see the similarity between the two courses, but at the end of the day, it is still my neck. Neither course outright lied to me, one just emphasised the danger and need for information more.

As a society I find we look for more instant gratification, especially amongst the young and the rich. And, we search for someone else to teach us. I actually go back and fault our education systems for the situation with diver training, and the problem I see with education is lack of funds (why I quit being a teacher). We seem more interested in presenting ciriculum instead of concentrating on student learning. The current OWD course is a good example. Anyone who can memorize the answers from the chapter summaries can pass the test. The pool skills are relatively simple. No where do we actually test the students comprehension. For example can you as an instructor fail me if I pass the test, but actually have no comprehension of what DCS is? (I just know that my instructor says its bad, but they also said beer was bad too, so I dont really believe them) All the test did was prove I could memorize the chapter summaries.

We fear giving people the power to subjectively grade someone because we fear personal agendas and prejidices. I would rather see more money spent on instructor training and subjective grading of instructors and students than money spent on standardization. BUT that removes control from governing bodies like PADI, and that is something they are not going to go for.

 

[MaxBottomtime]

You are indeed fortunate that your experiences have been so limited.

I'm not sure how much fortune played in it. I take care of my gear, I don't dive in groups and don't put myself in situations where things can go wrong accidently. I did a lot of deep wreck diving for a lot of years. Those dives were planned carefully with contingencies added in. By making sure my gear, dive plan and buddies were ready, I've avoided any gear malfunctions, never come close to an OOA situation and never had a dive when I felt lucky to get back alive.
I've had incredible dive experiences, but due to my preparations have avoided bad ones.

 

[mudhole]

Elitism is the belief or attitude that those individuals who are considered members of the elite — a select group of people with outstanding personal abilities. . .

Elitism may also refer to situations in which an elite individual assumes special a. . . [2]

Elitism? Forty years ago, as a member of a council of diving clubs in Oklahoma and Texas, we would have a spearfishing, and scuba skills competitions, that would draw 200 to 300 divers to a lake for the weekend. Many of these divers were plumbers, electricians, and other trades of men that worked physical jobs. Training classes were long and cheap. Safety wasn't thought of as some piece of gear you bought, but your ability to safely take on, the lake or position on the ocean.

Sorry if I've offended anyone. . . Times have changed, you choose if you would have liked to dive among 200 plus divers, that stayed close together, ate together, helped each other, partied with an Indian doing a Snow dance, on April 1st, in Texas. . . The only dive contest canceled due to snow in Southwest council history. . . The Indian was my dive partner.

Were times better then, no. . . are they better now, no. . . but the times are changing. Easy classes are having a huge drop out rate, It used to be hard to find a class, it was long and hard work, so the drop outs were before the class ended.

The ocean or lakes haven't changed much, just the divers swimming in it. As an old diver, I try to help the new people coming into the sport. It's up to them to accept or reject free help.

 

[Sas]

It's mostly about money. But let's face it, (recreational) diving just isn't that hard. It doesn't require a year of training. The lower training standards haven't lead to more accidents. I see them as more producing divers who aren't that comfortable so they don't have a good time and give up diving, not unsafe ones. Training has gotten lower but now there are also plenty of people to hand hold them as well as safer gear.

 

[fnfalman]

That's true, but the things you mention require the diver to do things in addition to diving and they require training for that. How is the diving they do different?

When a military/commercial diver is trained in the basics of open circuit, he's trained in the same way as I was trained when I was first certified as a recreational diver. Why is that? Is a skill deemed necessary for one person and not for the other. Why should a commercial diver be required to buddy breath and a recreational diver not be?
Should recreational divers know less about basic diving skills diving than there military/commercial counterparts?

I'll admit that military/commercial divers dive in worse conditions, deeper and longer, they do this through extensive training beyond the basic skills. However the basic skills are the same. One is trained in basic open-water skills in 50 hours, the other in 25 hours or less. I just don't see why certain basic skill-sets are no longer required. Why do you think the same training deemed necessary for sport divers several years ago and not now?

Why learn to buddy breath when you have octo?

Why are there different skill sets for commercial divers and recreational divers? Easy: one is a profession, and one is a hobby.

You don't expect civilian gun owners to have the same marksmanship & tactical training as a soldier would, do you?

A certain skill sets are no longer required because they're no longer needed. I'm a degreed engineer and I cannot use a slide rule to save my life. Does that mean I'm not as well trained as my predecessor?

 

[SolarStorm]

Does that mean I'm not as well trained as my predecessor?

No, just not as cool!

 

[SolarStorm]

DBDC Wrote: I read a study a few years back that indicated that although diving equipment has improved, the accident rate per exposure hour was about the same

This actually doesnt surprize me. I am a pilot and my family used to race MX. In both cases technology has increased dramatically! There is safety gear available to the MX track that I could only dream of. But we must remember that 50% of the populate is below average intelligence. The increase in dive safety is also offset by an increase in divers. The problem I see with that is:

800 years ago, it was only the top 50% that would take up diving. Today, it is a sport for everyone. (including the bottom 50%)

So while in cases of the "Professional" diver, I am not surprised that they have taken advantage of the better equipment, but there is still the "hold my beer" crowd that has now taken up the sport to offset that safety record. BUT what this has done is openned up a new world to the average guy. So if we were to lop off both ends of the accident rates, have we as a sport/hobby/etc. achieved anything? I would hazard yes. There are more average people enjoying a new and exciting world. Darwin will take care of the rest.

 

[acwest]

..I have never been in a situation when getting into the lotus position under water was warranted. I've never dropped my gear in the water accidently and had to go down, put it all together and get into it before surfacing. In the three decades I've been diving I've never even had my mask off under water. All of these things were required in my training, yet serve no purpose in recreational diving. I believe training is just fine for recreational divers.

I think you may have missed the point of why these skills were (and in some cases, are) taught. It's hard to argue against the ability to deal with losing your mask. A lot of things can happen to a mask, I know of at least one case of somebody having it broken in half by a barracuda. In poor visibility, it really isn't inconceivable that somebody might accidentally kick your mask off. The purpose of the lotus position thing(genie?) isn't because you are expected to use this position in dives, it's that it requires more precise buoyancy control than a fin pivot, and precise buoyancy control is a very good thing. Bail out type drills where you have to put your gear on on the bottom aren't done because this is something you are expected to do frequently, it's to teach the new diver how to deal with increased task-loading, and problem solving skills underwater. If things go wrong during a dive, these are valuable skills to have. And because the older style courses contained a significant rescue component, you can't really use the argument that you should never be in a position to need these skills. Sometimes a problem happens underwater to somebody else, and you still get to deal with it. Equipment failure is not always preventable with maintenance, either. In some cases, the maintenance actually causes the failure...