What should be done with unconcious diver at depth?

[boulderjohn]

Thanks! That was quite interesting.

What I picked up on was that he did not ascend while the diver was in the tonic/clonic phases of the seizure(s). In both cases he waited until the postictal (sleep) phases started. That would be my inclination as well because of the likelihood of embolizing if ascending during a seizure. Given all the time involved and the successful outcome, I think it must be almost certain that the diver must have been breathing for at least some of the ascent. With two seizures lasting as long as they did followed by two ascents, there should have been brain damage otherwise.

I wonder why this procedure (not ascending during a tonic/clonic seizure) is not indicated in the video.

I also strongly concur with his dire warning about analyzing your mix.

I was once in a similar situation to Diver X in that I was filling a lot of bottles prior to a trip, although we were jsut using nitrox. I was using partial pressure blending, meaning that I put in a specific pressure of O2 prior to topping off with air. The transfill line I was using has a quirky gauge that tends to shut off at inopportune moments, and it sometimes skips to different units (say bar instead of PSI) when you turn it back on. It happened on a couple of the fills without my notice, and I ended up overfilling them with O2 by quite a bit. Fortunately it was noticed when we started to top off with air--"Hey, aren't we already a little more full than we should be?" We would have caught it later, though, and at a couple of points. First, I would have analyzed in the compressor room after the tanks had sat for awhile, and later because we always analyze when we are setting up to dive. (Of course, we would have then been on site, with few options to do anything about it.)

 

[ktomlinson]

Thank you for the best answer to the OPs question.

Referring to snturner:

If the diver still has the reg in their mouth, keep it there. Execute a controlled assent, once on surface remove regulator, give breaths as described in "Rescue Class". At the same time you should be moving the diver back to the boat or shore(which ever is closet). Get the victim out of the water. Now the part no one wants to mention - Screw it up and you both will die. Simple huh.

 

[Anti-Hero]

I disagree that this discussion should be hidden in another forum. I also strongly disagree with everyone who chose to not answer the OPs question and just said "take the rescue course". This attitude of elitism benefits no one. Get off your high horses people and provide some of this secret society information that can benefit everyone. It just might be your ass that need saved.

Learning to dive on scubaboard is a silly and dangerous practice. Nobody is being elitist, and there is certainly no secret handshake to learn. Discussing the techniques in a public forum are fine; however if you try to apply these techniques without proper training you very well may cause more damage than not. Quit being the antagonist, everyone who suggested the OP to "take a rescue class" was 100% correct.

 

[Teamcasa]

Learning to dive on scubaboard is a silly and dangerous practice. Nobody is being elitist, and there is certainly no secret handshake to learn. Discussing the techniques in a public forum are fine; however if you try to apply these techniques without proper training you very well may cause more damage than not. Quit being the antagonist, everyone who suggested the OP to "take a rescue class" was 100% correct.

I think you missed the point. While I agree you can't learn to dive by reading posts on ScubaBoard, you can certainly learn things you did not know before reading the posts here.

Simply telling new divers to take a course does little to inspire them to do so. However, reading how complicated some of the tasks can be in the many varied diving situations, the consequences suffered and the successes of others may very well drive them to take a class or two.

 

[HisLovelyBride]

I have to agree with my wise husband "Teamcasa". I personally, appreciate pearls of wisdom and they inspire me to learn more. More importantly, in this hypothetical situation, explaining some of the details of the ascent will further make the point that training would be a GREAT idea! Those posters that gave advice and encouraged a Rescue Class were the most helpful. The ones that merely stated "Take a Class" seemed arrogant and elitist.

What I appreciate most about Scubaboard is the ability to have discussions that lead to good remedies, all the way from which mask works to "what do I do?" situations. Please be willing to share pearls with your recommendations.

 

[Anti-Hero]

I think you missed the point. While I agree you can't learn to dive by reading posts on ScubaBoard, you can certainly learn things you did not know before reading the posts here.

Simply telling new divers to take a course does little to inspire them to do so. However, reading how complicated some of the tasks can be in the many varied diving situations, the consequences suffered and the successes of others may very well drive them to take a class or two.

I didn't miss the point. I think you missed this sentence in my original reply:

"Discussing the techniques in a public forum are fine; however if you try to apply these techniques without proper training you very well may cause more damage than not."

I was advocating discussing the techniques here on SB, however I am also STRONGLY advocating anyone, nay, everyone learn them and practice them with a qualified instructor.

 

[Teamcasa]

I didn't miss the point. I think you missed this sentence in my original reply:

"Discussing the techniques in a public forum are fine; however if you try to apply these techniques without proper training you very well may cause more damage than not."

I was advocating discussing the techniques here on SB, however I am also STRONGLY advocating anyone, nay, everyone learn them and practice them with a qualified instructor.

OK, lets look at this a little closer.

After reading this thread a new diver now knows:

• Don't go to the unconscious diver and fill their BC up, shooting them to the surface.
• Don't grab them and shoot up to the surface.
• Don't try to revive them underwater.
• And so on.

You don't have to be trained to know this stuff now.

 

[Anti-Hero]

OK, lets look at this a little closer.

After reading this thread a new diver now knows:

• Don't go to the unconscious diver and fill their BC up, shooting them to the surface.
• Don't grab them and shoot up to the surface.
• Don't try to revive them underwater.
• And so on.

You don't have to be trained to know this stuff now.

That's all fine and well, however good the above points are, it still didn't get your unconscious diver topside. (preferably alive)

Only training, practice, and a little luck will do that.

I've been trained in the techniques and I can honestly say I'm not 100% confident I could do it [correctly]. Trying to control another diver, especially one wearing doubles is exceptionally difficult. A single tank diver is a bit easier, but training dives are a far cry from an actual emergency.

 

[DevonDiver]

Not to hijack the thread (too late!) but I remember during my TDI course being taught that if you had incurred a deco obligation and you had an unconscious diver at depth, you only took them up as shallow as you could personally go and then you shoot them the rest of the way. I remember thinking that sounded like bad advice - surely it would be better to take them all the way up and then return back down alone to complete your deco without lingering at the surface (small risk to you vs big risk to them). The Tec instructors on the board can correct me if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure that's what I recollect being taught.

The answer to this would vary depending on the exact circumstances.

In the event of an unconscious diver with deco penalty, then the fact remains that they must be brought to the surface asap. The bend can be fixed afterwards, but only if they are still alive.

For the rescuer, with deco penalty, then it is a case of making some swift and responsible decisions. Adding yourself to the casualty list by getting severely bent does not aid the casualty.

It may be possible to bring the casualty directly to the surface, but this would depend on the depths and durations of the stops required. If there is extensive stops at deeper depths, then re-descending to complete a proper deco schedule may not be feasible. At the least it would mean that your deco schedule was extended...and that could delay the subsequent evacuation of the casualty (if the boat had to wait longer for you to clear).

With tech diving, however, there are some systems that should be in place to provide workable solutions.

With a well trained surface crew and/or support divers... then simply shooting a yellow (emergency) bag to the surface...should bring support that would lead to a 'hand-over' of the casualty.

Also, if there are multiple pair/teams diving - then their dives could be staggered, so that ascending divers can hand-over a casualty to a pair that is ending their deco...or to a pair that is only just beginning their descent/starting their dive.

 

[BettyRubble]

Hmm . . quite an interesting read . . I want to point out something as a newbie who does have a training timeline outlined for myself that includes a rescue course --- but since I can barely manage my wetsuit and weight right now, I've put rescue on the timeline for August - after I've gotten a few weekend dives is. . . . hopefully those weekend dives will be incident free but it is good to read this debate and get a base of knowledge.

Not that I like seeing all the testosterone thrown around, but when you guys get fired up, you tap out more details. The debate is critical to getting at the salient points.

And last week while reading several A&I reports involving newbies (including a recent one at Dutch where I'll be spending time this summer), it occurred to me that I'd be clueless as to what to even attempt to do and it seems most newbies are the same since several of the A&I's I read indicated the buddy would ascend quickly to the surface screaming that a diver was on the bottom.

I'd rather know if there was something I could do, rather then not have any idea. My first instinct would probably have been to inflate bcd and shoot them to the surface while I ascended (hopefully at a reasonable pace).

Soooo . . . thank you for the debate - it is actually helpful in understanding how complex rescue can be, the importance of taking a rescue course, and at least a little knowledge of what I can do so that I don't cause more damage and I hopefully improve the chances the body will be recovered. And most importantly, a understanding of how easy it is to screw it up.

And yes, I am definitely going to move up my rescue class on the timeline . . . as soon as I get some of the basics in hand.