What should be done with unconcious diver at depth?

[docbonezz]

Great that you are taking a rescue course, In it you will learn you always want to have a controlled ascent if possible. Keep an open airway to give air a chance to escape. But you should not put yourself at extreme risk to save someone else.

Getting your Open water certification teaches you to breathe under water.
Getting your Advanced certification teaches you to "dive".
Getting your Rescue certification teaches you to be a good buddy.

I dove for 20 years as a Open Water diver because I dove on my own boat and never needed the advanced card. But I moved from paradise and started to take dive trips where they wanted to see Advanced certification levels to dive with them.

My daughter wanted to get certified so I took Rescue so I would know what to do in an emergency.

The advanced and rescue certification levels made me feel like a much better diver. So continue your diver education. You should never stop learning. There is always new stuff coming out. Maybe not better ways...... just different ways of doing something.

Good luck.

 

[Doc Intrepid]

Here's the basic steps that we teach our BOW divers.

1. Tap diver to determine if they are unconscious or just looking at something.
2. Upright diver and get them into a vertical position.
3. Situate yourself behind the diver and reach your right arm under their right arm, around their chest and up to their face to either lightly hold their reg in their mouth or hold it in front of their mouth if the reg was not in their mouth when you encountered the diver.
4. With your left hand, dump air from your BC and grab the diver's inflator/deflator hose.
5. Swim to the surface controlling the ascent with the diver's BC.
6. About 1-2 feet from the surface, tilt the diver back so they are facing up and start inflating their BC.
7. Inflate your BC and continue with the standard unconscious diver at the surface rescue.

This is a pretty good list...

Couple other points

* (Working from behind the unconscious diver,) try to raise their head slightly on ascent - the gas in their lungs will expand as you swim them to the surface...and an open airway may allow the expanding gas to escape and avoid over-expansion injuries;

* If in Drysuits, you will be controlling 3 (if only you are in a drysuit) or 4 (if both you and the unconscious diver are in drysuits) 'gas bubbles' (BCDs and Drysuits) - ensure your valves are open on both suits, as the gas expanding inside the suits will otherwise make your ascent difficult to control. As the list above states, dumping the gas from your BCD will let you control the ascent primarily using only one corregated hose/inflator - the victims - rather than trying to dump two BCDs simultaneously while you're swimming up (and the same goes for drysuits);

* after you get to the surface, drop the victim's weights if they are wearing weights - makes it easier to keep and maneuver them on the surface, lift them over the stern into the boat, etc.

All the above presumes you do not have a decompression obligation. Most recreational divers are not performing planned decompression dives. If you in fact DO have a decompression obligation, then its your judgement call. You would be wise to avoid creating two victims instead of one, but getting the unconscious diver to the surface quickly is paramount to beginning to treat them. What would you do if it was your husband, wife, or kid? Taken to a far enough extreme, things become extremely subjective.

Still, the above list posted by mkutyna is a good place to start.

(Oh, ...and 'take a class'! The textbook shots from bluebubble1995 were nice... )

Doc

 

[ShakaZulu]

What is the best course of action if I encounter an unconscious diver at depth? My gut tells me to inflate the person's BCD and shoot them to the surface. No worries about lung over expansion but they may have an embolism. I figure this is better than a slow ascent and drowning.

Please let me know what the proper procedure is?

Thanks

Implement good dive planning and diving principles to avoid the "unconscious diver at depth" ordeal in the first place...Getting the diver to the surface, and then to the beach/boat to start the CPR process takes a long time. I don't want to be that diver....

 

[rstofer]

As the list above states, dumping the gas from your BCD will let you control the ascent primarily using only one corregated hose/inflator - the victims - rather than trying to dump two BCDs simultaneously while you're swimming up (and the same goes for drysuits);

It may be worth pointing out that, at the beginning of a deep dive with a highly negative tank (eg HP 100), a very compressed wetsuit and reasonable wing lift, say 30#, that a single BC will NOT lift both of you off the bottom. In fact, BOTH BCs need to be nearly full to achieve neutral buoyancy at 100'.

Now you have to wrestle with both BCs while trying to hang on to the victim, keep their head up and airway open while avoiding too fast of an ascent. Good luck with that! The clock is ticking...

You could consider ditching some weight but a) you don't have long to figure it out and b) you could wind up too positive as you come shallow.

And that's why I think it is disingenuous to teach rescue in 20' of water with Al 80 tanks.

Richard

 

[boulderjohn]

As this thread goes on, we see different points of view emerging, and it should be obvious now that there is not a clear consensus on what is best. A copy of one textbook and the video showed some real differences. Much of this is debatable, and the message that you should take from this is that if you choose one side of the debate or the other, you will not be wrong, so don't worry about it. Do what works.

Remember that the video is showing a toxing diver (having a seizure due to oxygen toxicity) rather then being unconscious. That is an even more challenging proposition, in my view.

The video shows the rescuer giving the victim his regulator. This is highly unusual in rescue instruction. It is not usually taught that way in recreational rescue classes, and it was not taught that way when I learned a toxing diver rescue in my technical training.

The video shows both a rescuer and a victim wearing doubles. This is different from what most people will encounter, and it makes a difference in technique. With a single tank, it is a good idea to lock the victim's tank between your knees, thus gaining a lot of control over the victim's body position in the water. You really can't do that in doubles. In my experience with doubles rescues, the kicking that the rescuer is doing in the film is necessary to help maintain the victim's body position in the water. When I played the victim in a recent practice, a rescuer did not do that and just used buoyancy adjustment for the ascent. He had a very hard time keeping me vertical--my feet kept rising in front of me, forcing me to turn over on my back.

The text that was cited said to use your own BCD to maintain buoyancy control. The video and several subsequent posters said to dump your air and use the victim's. I have seen raging debates on this on the Internet and in person. I personally agree with the video (use the victim's).

Finally, remember this: if you "come across" an unconscious diver on the bottom, even if you do the very best job possible in surfacing the victim and treating him or her on the surface, the chances of recovery are not good. Don't get down on yourself if you fail.

 

[MMM]

For someone who has not been trained in rescue, I liked the answer provided in this thread about deploying your SMB, attaching it to the unconscious diver, and heading to the surface for help. That seems to make the most sense for someone untrained in rescue. In fact, it may well be something I'd do (after putting their reg in their mouth if it wasn't there already), even though I have been trained. It's been a couple of years since I did my rescue cert and bringing an unconscious diver to the surface is not a skill I've had occasion to use, or practice, since then. Therefore, I'm not sure I could bring the unconscious diver to the surface safely...

 

[rstofer]

Well, the victim sure won't be improving while you deploy an SMB, ascend to the surface and wait for help. Realistically, we are talking about recovery in this situation, not rescue.

I took NAUI Rescue 20 years ago and my wife and son-in-law took the PADI version about a month ago. The part about what to do on the surface is pretty well established but the unresponsive diver on the bottom is the tough part.

I don't pretend t have the answers. What if the diver is family? What if they're not even part of your buddy team? In my view there is a difference in the level of personal risk I will take performing the rescue for family.

Is an uncontrolled ascent for the victim better than staying on the bottom? There is a very real chance I could lose control of the ascent if I have to work 2 BCs. I don't even know how to deal with a drysuit; I don't have one!

How is this going to turn out in court? In California? I was trained but it was a long time ago. Am I still assumed to be proficient when we go to court?

I really hope to never find out the answers to any of these questions.

Richard

 

[dpaustex]

This post is a pretty good one, going on for some years. All of the responses are pretty good. I guess the question should also be asked whether or not you have a buddy with you, and what your depth is.

If you have a buddy, send them for help. Note your location. It does little good to be helping someone and not know where you are. Rember the adage: Stop, breathe, think, act. Don't become a victim yourself, is rule number one.

All good answers. If the reg is in the mouth, do a controlled ascent, gently holding their regulator in their mouth. Yes, you will skip your safety stop and might get bent. But the most important thing is to get the person to the surface, where aid can be administered on the shore, or on the dive boat. It is next to impossible to administer aid in the water (try CPR on a floating object and you'll see what I mean), but give it a shot at getting them breathing, if possible. Check the ABCs.

Once you're at the surface, get both of you positively buoyant. Ditch both of your weigths, if necessary (remember, most people drown in scuba, with their weights still on...they forget to ditch them, and panic instead).

At the surface, remember the ABC's (airway, breathing, circulation). Make sure you can be seen, so people can come to your aid. If there is no pulse or respiration, get them to where you can work on them (CPR).

The next step is victim transport, to boat or shore. This is where your towing skills come in.

From here, you need to get them oxygen, ASAP, and perform CPR. By now, your buddy should have called for help.

This is a brief explanation. This is why it is crucial to have not only a dive plan, but an emergency response plan on each dive. For instance, you call 911....do you know WHERE you are, and how for help to get TO you? Are you current on CPR? If not, why?

The list goes on and on. All of us, as divers, have a responsibility to ourselves, and the group. Know your limits. Get in (better) shape. Be hydrated. Dive your limits. Dive Safe.

Above all else, have fun doing it.

 

[NudeDiver]

I wonder if the tone and so forth of the thread would be the same if it were concerning a different question with a very complex answer that depends on a lot of circumstances - such as, "How do I do a deco dive?" or "How do I use trimix?" Or hell - "How do I swap out the cylinder heads on my 2004 Corvette?" Sometimes, "consult a better source of information" (referring to one that is more able to properly respond to the question) is the right answer - and often times, that better source of information is a book, class, instructor, or God himself.

As for the question itself - I might have missed it, but so far I have not seen anyone point out that this is a skill that should be practiced, repeatedly, under the supervision of properly trained and equipped personnel, under controlled circumstances, before it should be attempted "out in the wild" - and that, even once learned, should be practiced periodically, so that the skill can be maintained. Reading it on a forum somewhere and then trying to put it into practice for the first time in a panic or emergency situation is just asking to make a bad situation worse than it needs to be.

 

[bluebubble1995]

this is a skill that should be practiced, repeatedly, under the supervision of properly trained and equipped personnel, under controlled circumstances, before it should be attempted "out in the wild"

I'm having that made into a sign that I'm going to hand you when you are breathing water at 100' and no one is around but me. Make sure your relatives know to put that on your tombstone.