- Messages
- 22,171
- Reaction score
- 2,798
- # of dives
- 5000 - ∞
Jim. It's horrible to say. But I think you're unlikely to ever make that fifth PADI star.





Welcome to ScubaBoard, the world's largest scuba diving community. Registration is not required to read the forums, but we encourage you to join. Joining has its benefits and enables you to participate in the discussions.
Benefits of registering include
Jim. It's horrible to say. But I think you're unlikely to ever make that fifth PADI star.
PADI listens to no one especially independent instructors. I will not affiliate with a shop and will not push gear or courses that students don't need, want, or can't afford. Right now I am forbidden to put anything before the students best interests, needs, or means when it comes to advising on equipment.
Do you honestly think they would change their entire business model, forego profits, and go back to the way the program was orignally set up which was not much different than the old Y program? That is the only way I could teach for them. And they would have to get rid of the elearning, require a minimum of 32 hours of instruction, teach all the things that I do now, and charge independent instructors the same as they do the so-called 5 star, gold palm, platinum platypus, or whatever the same price for materials.
Like my agency does now. I pay the same price and make the same profits on materials buying enough for 4 students at a time as one that buys for 25 at a time. That is an agency that treats all it's instructors fairly. For me to switch they would have to allow me to teach to the standards I do now and require all instructors to do so or higher. They would have to stop encouraging ridiculous specialties. They would have to put all major standard's changes before the membership. They would have to stop telling people to take one course after another with no time to put into practice what was just learned. They would have to fully support independents and put us on equal footing with the biggest of their customers. In short when pigs fly I would crossover. I don't want to put lots of divers in the water. I want to put divers in the water who are FULLY qualified to be in the water from day one like I do now. There are divers in the water who have no business being near water let alone in it on scuba and PADI has been at the forefront of seeing to that. No thanks I would not fight them and they would soon censor or throw me out anyway because as long as there were things wrong I would be more vocal about it than I am now to even more people.
Allow me to summarise what I've learned on this thread:
If I had to choose an instructor to teach my kids, Jim is the guy. I wish that he was closer!
Good for you.
You aren't recognised as a certification by nearly all dive centres and therefore not insured or able to hir kit and dive,
but someone needs to stick up for the little man.
How does one express a concept except in words?
What use are words when their definition is not agreed to?
Elusive as it may be.Truth!
Considering that this thread is about a dead PADI diver, the PADI shop that didn't train him well enough, another PADI shop that couldn't figure out that 2 dives and an OW card != a 100' wall dive and the PADI DM that couldn't figure it out either, I would think you wouldn't be so quick to take pot-shots at an organization that apparently does a much better job of training good divers and instructors than PADI does.
Also, in any case, you're wrong on all points. DAN does insure SEI members and any shop with a phone, internet connection or 12' of water for a skills demo will rent equipment to an SEI diver.
Terry
Getting back to this fatality. Did the Dive Op in Cayman present the person on the dive boat as DM? YES! Was he presented to the signed up divers as ONLY as Guide? NO. Those are the sworn statements of the Op in this thread and what she says the other people were told too.
Questions:
Is that misleading?
Would the deceased have dove to 100 ft with a person that was ONLY a dive guide
Woud the deceased, a brand new diver, have even dove with only a dive guide?
What are the functions of a DM on a dive boat versus a Dive guide on a dive boat?
Should this Dive Op have made that clear?
And here is the BIG question: what are the duties of a Dive Master on a dive boat, vis a vis a brand new diver? Does the term Dive Master convey a certain extra level of security to the new divers?
Where is this new term, DG, and its designation, in the PADI manualI can't find it. If a Dive Operation offers the newbie divers on a dive boat a DM but the person that leads teh dive is in fact just a Dive Guide, is that fraud? Does a DM convey an extra measure of security to the newbie diver?
Considering that this thread is about a dead PADI diver, the PADI shop that didn't train him well enough, another PADI shop that couldn't figure out that 2 dives and an OW card != a 100' wall dive and the PADI DM that couldn't figure it out either, I would think you wouldn't be so quick to take pot-shots at an organization that apparently does a much better job of training good divers and instructors than PADI does.
Also, in any case, you're wrong on all points. DAN does insure SEI members and any shop with a phone, internet connection or 12' of water for a skills demo will rent equipment to an SEI diver.
Terry