Diver Death in Cayman

[pilot fish]

Jim, thank you for your detailed answer. Question, the Dive Op presenting a person as a DM but delivering only a DG constitues fraud, right? You are so right, this was a cluster f from the start and this DG/DM should never have taken this group to a site that deep. His tip off, if he even knew what his damn job was in fact, once he heard that 2 divers would only go to 60 ft, he should have then had everyone at that depth. Would you agree that the fact that he did not is a derelection of his duty?

 

[pilot fish]

The question for me is this.. In this case, would the deceased diver have acted any differently had he known the true qualifications of the DM/DG on the boat?

The answer is yes. Cannot tell you how I know this with certainty now but no one would have gone to 100 ft with just a DG. The Dive Op MISREPRESENTED THE STATUS OF THE PERSON LEADING THE DIVE. That much we know from the OP. I believe her. Do you?

In truth you and I cannot say with any confidence one way or another as we were not there, however we know from the OP's eyewitness account that he had stated that he wanted to go to 100' to see what it was like. This apparently after numerous objections directed at the DM/DG from an experienced diver (OP) in the group as to the novice status of some divers (including the deceased) on the boat.

Blame aside (seriously), don't you wonder what actually happened to this poor soul that caused him to end up out of his depth (so to speak)? It seems that almost without exception, 95% of the posts on this thread are either trying to lay blame or trying to cover arse. - I guess that is why the Mod demoted this to the bowels of the boat, an insightful move obviously.

Best Regards
Richard

I can say with SOME confidence that this diver would be alive today if the right person was leading that dive.:depressed:

 

[Riger]

The answer is yes. Cannot tell you how I know this with certainty now but no one would have gone to 100 ft with just a DG

I respectfully disagree with you, we cannot say with any certainty that the person would have acted differently.

The (experienced) diver who was diving as the buddy to his fiancé' was obviously concerned and made (6 or 7) objections to the DM/DG, based on her "closeness" to these folk, I am sure (but it is speculation) that he must have been aware of her concerns.

I am also guessing it was their first ever dive with the Diving Dancer (or was it the Dancing Diver?) and yet, amidst apparent public objections, by the experienced diver(s) in the boat, regarding the dive parameters (100') declared by the DM/DG, he (Brendan) went anyway.

(Before anyone thinks I am blaming the diver, I am not - I think he was a victim of a sequence of failed mechanisms, starting out with the training he received. I am also a PADI Vacation product, but my job requires that I rely on my judgement not that of others, but that is another story.)

Best Regards
Richard

 

[Web Monkey]

The answer is yes. Cannot tell you how I know this with certainty now but no one would have gone to 100 ft with just a DG. The Dive Op MISREPRESENTED THE STATUS OF THE PERSON LEADING THE DIVE. That much we know from the OP. I believe her. Do you?

I beleive her, but I'm not really sure the distinction between DM/DG really matters (especially since I'm almost certain that the "DM" was at least an OWI)

If a reasonable person got on a boat with an employee of the dive shop, and the guy helped with equipment, gave a dive briefing, got everybody into the water, and then said "follow me" and lead the dive, a reasonable person would assume that the guy was some sort of professional with the skills and credentials to lead a dive and would be using an appropriate level of professional judgement.

I can say with SOME confidence that this diver would be alive today if the right person was leading that dive

That's because if the right person was leading the dive it would have been over a 60' hard bottom. Or maybe a 40' hard bottom.

This disaster really pisses me off because even a minimal amount of judgement by any of the professionals involved would have prevented a death. It's not rocket science. A guy with two dives doesn't belong on an essentially bottomless wall, and when you have a boat full of mixed skill levels, you go to the place that's safe for everybody, not the place that's cool for somebody.

Terry

 

[wcd143]

I am truly sorry for the loss of your friend, And I thank you for the heads up. I am an assistant Instructor and WAS heading there for work .

 

[Riger]

Hi Terry,

The point I was making (or trying to) was that the decision to do what the victim did was NOT based on what title the DM/DG gave himself.

I agree with what (I think) you are saying in that the circumstances on the boat and the roles that other divers (incl DM/DG) were adopting provided the "perception" of a secure platform for the victim to do the 100' dive. (Fair interpretation?)

Regards
Richard

 

[John_B]

Has anyone seen PF and GaryLee at the same time?

 

[Drew Sailbum]

On every part of the island I have dived on once you are at about 200 feet it drops off pretty much vertically into the abyss. In some areas (East End,North Wall) the vertical drop starts at around 60 feet. On the Northwest Point it slopes down from 60 to 200 then goes vertical.

By the time you got to 300+ it would be shear luck if you happened to stop on a projection or not.

It really is a very steep drop off, though not 90 degrees at the areas I have seen at similar depths. I have not done any tech dives in the area of this incident so I hesitate to say exactly what it looks like at those depths there. It is certain that the wall is still falling away at those depths, but whether that is at 50, 60, 70, or 80+ degrees I cannot say.

If the angle of drop of the wall is not too severe in that area then I would think it possible that the diver hit hard bottom. If the angle is sharper then he may have essentially bounced off the side but been unable to come to a stop (a bit like a skier tumbling down a slope).

I think it is much more likely that positive buoyancy was achieved by one of the previously mentioned mechanisms and that is what arrested the descent.

 

[Thalassamania]

With respect to the responsibilities and duties of a captain, there exists a large body of internationally recognized maritime law.

 

[spoolin01]

But boating-for-scuba doesn't seem to fit perfectly (there's the angle!) with the scenarios that law developed around. It's been deemed outright not to apply in some trials, or the period involved with scuba has been severed from the rest of the context, from what I've read. Considering the great degree of this 'context' that the certifying agencies apparently don't address, that can nevertheless be front and center for your continued good health if you boat dive, there seem to be some gaps in the boat dive op model that many seem to prefer (and maybe practice).