Tampering with other divers' gear

[rollerboi]

Just to kick this discussion sideways:

What if the diver in the original post had been finning furiously toward the surface? Would you try to stop or slow her/him down? My initial gut reaction is "Gosh, I've gotta slow that diver down or it's an AGE for sure!"

But, maybe they are hell-bent for the surface because they are OOA and their buddy was out of reach.... and if I slow them down I might be drowning them.

Just curious what others would do (I've never been in this position, but have thought about how I'd respond).

Best wishes.

It's my understanding that this is addressed in the Rescue class. Someone better qualified than I can address this, for sure.

My thoughts anyways: If someone's panicked and shooting for the surface, chances are they're forgetting to breathe, or holding what last bit they have left in reserves. This'll definitely cause bad stuff to happen. I know some folks will be there to grab, ready to fight, and have their own regulator in hand to calm the OOA/panicked diver. I probably wouldn't, since I'm not trained for an all-out panic situation. A training situation I hope to remedy.

 

[LeadTurn_SD]

It's my understanding that this is addressed in the Rescue class. Someone better qualified than I can address this, for sure.

My thoughts anyways: If someone's panicked and shooting for the surface, chances are they're forgetting to breathe, or holding what last bit they have left in reserves. This'll definitely cause bad stuff to happen. I know some folks will be there to grab, ready to fight, and have their own regulator in hand to calm the OOA/panicked diver. I probably wouldn't, since I'm not trained for an all-out panic situation. A training situation I hope to remedy.

My training is getting older (like me ). OW back in 1976 did have some elements of what is currently taught in Rescue. Our instructor back then told us that if he saw any student panic and begin to shoot to the surface, he would hold them down (and try to get a reg into their mouth)... he explained that he felt he had a good chance to revive a "near-drowning" victim, but zero chance to save a diver who embolized. I was 19 at the time, and that sounded pretty reasonable to me.

I'm now 51, have had (non-scuba) water rescue/survival training, have seen a few real drownings, and now know that reviving a drowning victim is not a sure thing, despite what you see on TV. Drowning victims often stay drowned.

So now I'm a lot less certain about trying to stop a diver that is intentionally rushing for the surface. You can surface faster than 60'/min and not embolize (if you keep your airway open).... however you will drown if someone restrains you and doesn't get a reg in your mouth fast enough... at least that is the way I'm looking at the situation currently.

Best wishes.

 

[Deefstes]

Thanks for all the responses. I see this is much more of an emotive issue than I had initially thought but I can understand why and I will certainly think twice before doing something seemingly innocent like checking someone's valves before a dive without him knowing.

I can see that there is a difference between what I did on the dive and what people would consider "tampering" but, even though it might not be all that prevalent as Dave pointed out, I think I'd need to be a little bit more careful.

One example I can immediately think of is that we usually launch with all the gear ready and kitted up but cylinders closed. Just before the plunge the skipper goes around and opens all the cylinders. I have seen other divers (and I have done so myself) taking it on themselves to start opening cylinders as well just to speed up the process but maybe that's not such a great idea. Maybe I should rather just leave it for the skipper or the diver to do or at least ask the diver if I can open his/her cylinder.

As for "tampering" in the sinister sense of the word, I couldn't agree more. If I had to find out on a dive that someone had rubbed pepper sauce onto my reg or altered my BC straps or whatever, I would be livid and whoever did it would know about it afterward. Even if not sinister, if he thinks I'd benefit from a different BC strap length or hose configuration he can tell me so but changing it without me knowing could get me killed - and right now I still have a preference for being alive.

 

[james croft]

I like being responsible for all my gear and have a set routine I stick with when preparing for a dive. I always bring my own tanks on a dive boat when diving in the states and always swap them out after each dive. A couple of times I have returned from my first dive and swapped out tanks only to have an eager DM swap them back as they were unaware that I had changed them. This causes problems for me but it normally will be caught during the buddy check. But I don't like the "help" and please leave my tank valve alone, thank you very much.

In my opinion, with the exception of an OW student, if a person cannot swap out their own tanks or set up their own gear unassisted they probably should not be diving.

 

[b1gcountry]

To me,there are a couple acceptable scenarios where it's okay to mess with someone else's gear.

If they are in trouble underwater, or above, and need assistance.

If their gear is in danger of being lost or broken, and they are not around to rectify it themselves.

and most importantly...If you are playing a practical joke, and everyone will get a good laugh out of it. (Tying a rubber chicken to someone's valves is funny. Shutting down their air is not)

Tom

 

[gypsyjim]

Just to kick this discussion sideways:

What if the diver in the original post had been finning furiously toward the surface? Would you try to stop or slow her/him down? My initial gut reaction is "Gosh, I've gotta slow that diver down or it's an AGE for sure!"

But, maybe they are hell-bent for the surface because they are OOA and their buddy was out of reach.... and if I slow them down I might be drowning them.

Just curious what others would do (I've never been in this position, but have thought about how I'd respond).

Best wishes.

I believe that the recommended procedure in the scenario you present is to try to slow the assent of the diver if it looks like they in danger, and present your alternate air source if it appears they are not breathing. Slowing them will force the diver to take a breath, and slow down if they aren't OOA, and allow them to focus on your alternate air source if they are OOA.
No cut and dried answer; every situation is different, and such a situation you describe would require all your skills of observation, and a judgment call on your part. If you read the situation wrong you could have a pissed off giver, but on the other hand you could have prevented an air expansion injury or a possible drowning, or both.

 

[letterboy]

I'd say pretty darned rare. I've never seen it. I have seen other divers politely suggest or question a gear configuration to be helpful.

I my opinion, it would take a near-pathologic personality to take it upon themselves to alter another divers gear without permission, even if they thought they were helping, and a true sociopath to actually "tamper" with the gear.

Best wishes.

Are you calling me a sociopath?

To me,there are a couple acceptable scenarios where it's okay to mess with someone else's gear.

If they are in trouble underwater, or above, and need assistance.

If their gear is in danger of being lost or broken, and they are not around to rectify it themselves.

and most importantly...If you are playing a practical joke, and everyone will get a good laugh out of it. (Tying a rubber chicken to someone's valves is funny. Shutting down their air is not)

Tom

After the diver is in his gear, and waiting to stand up re "bungieing" their tank to the bench is always fun . . .

 

[offthewall1]

Some discussion in another thread prompted this question. I can understand that it is none of my business to tamper with another diver's gear and I would be furious if someone tampered with mine. But are there perhaps circumstances where it is acceptable?

Example:
On a recent dive I saw another diver making a sudden ascent. She was head down and finning furiously. Another diver beat me to her and took her by the hand to start dragging her down. I could see that her BC was noticeably inflated so when I got to them I immediately grabbed her kidney purge valve and purged some air from the BC. This seemed to rectify the buoyancy-gone-wrong problem and they both returned to the reef where she fiddled a little until it seemed she was comfortable again.

I'm not sure if she accidentally inflated her BC and I should actually have asked afterward but forgot. She did thank us both after the dive for helping her out.

Anyways, my question is, would any of you have frowned upon such action? I mean me purging air from her BC? She was trying to purge from her shoulder purge valve but seeing as she was head down that obviously had no effect. Should I rather have indicated to her to rather purge from the kidney valve? That certainly would have taken longer so I decided to simply purge some air myself.

Your thoughts?

It is NEVER acceptable to touch someone elses gear (pre-dive or on the boat etc...) unless you have asked their permission. If you see something dangerous, report it to them and let them address it. This way, they can't sue you later because whatever you touched or did was wrong and placed them in danger.

Underwater... that is another story. It is certainly advisable to help someone (such as the over-inflated BCD) when they are in danger and unable to rectify the situation themselves. Do know however that you place yourself at risk when doing so. You will learn more about this in a good rescue course.

Cheers and Safe Diving!

 

[gypsyjim]

Are you calling me a sociopath?

After the diver is in his gear, and waiting to stand up re "bungieing" their tank to the bench is always fun . . .

That was you?:mooner:

 

[letterboy]

It is NEVER acceptable to touch someone elses gear unless you have asked their permission. If you see something dangerous, report it to them and let them address it. This way, they can't sue you later because whatever you touched or did was wrong and placed them in danger.

The sad part is this is true . . . BRB gotta clean the keyboard out over here though . . .

That was you?:mooner:

UHH, no that wasn't me . . . I had nothing to do with that . . . look over there --->> Its superman . . . .