Criminally negligent homicide?/Scuba Instructor Faces Charges (merged threads)

[LeadTurn_SD]

I do not think this is a safe drill. I do not understand why it was being done in an open water class. You should never breath compressed air then leave your scuba regulator at the bottom. This goes againt what a reasonably prudent scuba instructor would allow. I am afraid they may have a case.

Jay

This is really a sad story, but I'm not sure I agree the instructor deserves criminal prosecution.

I don't see this drill as particularly dangerous compared to CESA drills with full gear on. If the student held his breath and rocketed to the surface from the bottom of the swimming pool (if that is what actually happened) then the outcome would be the same, with or without a regulator in his mouth.

I think the issue will be whether the instructor had adequately instructed and supervised the drill. It may just be that the student just surprised her and "got away from her". Again, it is very sad.

I think this drill is may not used as much today, but I actually did the exact same drill in 1976 when I was certified, along with the next advanced drill:

1. Remove all gear, including your mask and fins arrange gear on the bottom of the deep end of the pool, turned off air, then surface while exhaling.
2. Rest for a minute, then when ready take a deep breath, swim down to your gear.
3. Locate valve,turn on air, clear reg, start breathing.
4. Grab weight belt and place across lap so you have better control, locate mask and put it on & clear, then put all gear back on correctly, surface, and repeat until done 100% correctly. Some people were convinced they could not do it, but after several tries were able to do it and it was a great confidence-builder.

This was all done of with the instructor hovering a few feet away and watching like a hawk for anyone who bolted for the surface.

I do not consider this to be an "unsafe drill", providing the instructor is very attentive and explains everything in detail. In my case the drill was done towards the end of the course (which was longer than OW courses today) after we'd gotten comfortable with donning/doffing, mask clearing, etc.

Safe Diving!

 

[Thalassamania]

In the case of this (assumed) exercise (ditch and recovery), there is a long history of using it in training programs.

 

[fisherdvm]

On the school's news forum, a student wrote the following:

http://forums.tuscaloosanews.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/5981059265/m/5351029247/p/3

acstallings
Newbie
Posted 29 July 2008 06:53 AM Hide Post
I was there the day before.

""Alyson was a nice lady, but she wasn't a certified SCUBA instructor, however her husband Scott was and she taught the class for some reason. She knew what she was doing but really didn't teach too well.

I went to class the day before it happened. We went to the bottom, took off our stuff, swam up bare. We then went down, put it back on and ascended. The dude messed up on the bare ascend part.

The fella was on drugs from what I understand and his room-mate had died from a drug overdose himself the week before. Your lung's air is violently forced out of your mouth as you go up because of the pressure change. It'd be pretty hard to kill yourself that way unless you were high, or just plain stupid. All you have to do is exhale.

I don't doubt that it was partially her fault because she really didn't pay too much attention to us, just her helper students. He knew what he was getting into and did it anyhow. I'm not the brightest cookie out there, but I did just fine. no problem. I was gonna go brush up my skill that day too since we could come to any class we wanted to, but I decided not to and I'm glad.

She shouldn't go to jail but she should definitely not teach SCUBA without the proper cert. After all, her husband was the one with the certification.

She did actually ALWAYS emphasize to "bubble bubble bubble" when we were under the water with the regulator out of our mouth because of the risk of an embolism. You can't always tell if you're moving up or down and a difference of 4 feet doubles the air volume if I remember correctly.

And don't get me wrong, I feel sorry for his loved ones and family, but if he was on drugs or even remotely high/buzzed, then it is 100% on him.

This message has been edited. Last edited by: acstallings, 29 July 2008 06:56 AM """
Posts: 2 | Registered: 29 July 2008

 

[jeter]

I don't see this drill as particularly dangerous compared to CESA drills with full gear on. If the student held his breath and rocketed to the surface from the bottom of the swimming pool (if that is what actually happened) then the outcome would be the same, with or without a regulator in his mouth.

Todays training standards require that the scuba regulator remain in place during controlled emergency swiming assents (CESA). This prevents the stundent from inhaling water and allows for the drill to be aborted.

The instructor should be in a position to abort the ascent if it is to fast or if exhaliation is not occuring.

I am sure that in 1976 the standards were different. It is the responsibility of the instructor to keep current with training standards.

 

[AbyssalPlains]

Typical example of litigious society. Makes me wanna puke. If you can't look after yourself, don't dive. Stay with your Playstation instead.

 

[Blackwood]

I do not think this is a safe drill. I do not understand why it was being done in an open water class. You should never breath compressed air then leave your scuba regulator at the bottom. This goes againt what a reasonably prudent scuba instructor would allow. I am afraid they may have a case.

Jay

And if your gear is entangled leaving you with no choice but to ditch it...?

I think it's a reasonable exercise even for basic diving (and it bears noting that this appears to have been a university class, and that they typically exceed the major agencies' standards).

 

[PhilEllis]

I think it's a reasonable exercise even for basic diving (and it bears noting that this appears to have been a university class, and that they typically exceed the major agencies' standards).

We might be surprised on this.

Phil Ellis

 

[Captain Morgan]

It is a one-on-one drill, with the instructor in position to note a CONSTANT exhalation throughout the practice. The instructor manual pretty tightly describes how to do this skill, in both confined and open water.

Couldn't agree with you more. I mean nobody is here to judge this lady but this topic was initiated for discussion so I'm discussing it. No one knows the details we can only speculate. Yes, it may seem to give the industry a bad rap and some people interested in taking up the sport may second guess their decision over fear, so I can understand divers wanting to stick to there own kind on this one. I love water and diving just as much as the next guy but let that be on one of my family, siblings, or daughter under the direct supervision of somebody instructing them....blood is thicker than water. Maybe it's just the Italian in me.

Of course there was no obvious intent on her part to harm or kill but through inaction under her care and presence, she allowed this student to die. That is negligence. My brother was killed in a head on car collision, the driver of the other vehicle survived. He was northbound on the interstate, this girl was southbound and crossed the entire median to the opposite side. Yes it was an accident...but it was negligence on her part. Just as someone operating a motor vehicle plows into and kills a pedestrian. An accident, yes.....negligence? Let the courts decide however justified your view is on that system.

 

[fisherdvm]

And if your gear is entangled leaving you with no choice but to ditch it...?

I think it's a reasonable exercise even for basic diving (and it bears noting that this appears to have been a university class, and that they typically exceed the major agencies' standards).

I agree, it is not a bad exercise to teach. But look at how much crapola I got from tonnes of scuba instructors here when I even mention about the benefits of teaching students to perform cesa without a reg in the mouth HORIZONTALLY across the surface of the pool.

The bottom line the liability experts said, is that if it is not within the standard of your certifying agency, you are on your own if something bad happens.

 

[Captain Morgan]

Oh, I think the whole legal issue is summed up in that first paragraph.

Ouch! Yes. She may be quite familiar with all the training and procedures in instructing...can probably teach all the basics and fundamentals with her eyes closed (no pun intended) but not a "certified instructor?" Case in point.