Banana drama

[Sas]

Not all beliefs are worthy of respect. Some are worth of apathy, some are worthy of ridicule, some are worthy of disdain.

I disagree with the idea that the problem we have now are due to the lack of respecting others beliefs. Instead, I think the problem is too many people are willing to believe things that are really silly, and sometimes destructive.

Too many people are willing to turn off their rational thought and accept ideas that they should know have no basis in reality.

I don't apologize for promoting rationality over superstition.

Well said! I agree completely.

 

[DandyDon]

On the hat thing I was also taught nver put one on a table or counter.

I think that had more to do with courtesies (tradition, not superstitions or beliefs) as well as not wanting to get food or beer on a hat. Before the "Urban Cowboy" movie, we'd lay the hat upside down in the ladies chair while we danced at a honky-tonk - all the guys with hat hair. After the movie, barn rules were adopted: wear the hat on the dance floor like the tourists. We still remove them for churches, funerals, The Alamo, and a social visit to a home of course.

Not all beliefs are worthy of respect. Some are worth of apathy, some are worthy of ridicule, some are worthy of disdain.

I disagree with the idea that the problem we have now are due to the lack of respecting others beliefs. Instead, I think the problem is too many people are willing to believe things that are really silly, and sometimes destructive.

Too many people are willing to turn off their rational thought and accept ideas that they should know have no basis in reality.

I don't apologize for promoting rationality over superstition.

Big jump from silly (their call, none of our business) to destructive, which is why I said "That's exactly why I respect boat traditions, local culture traditions, religious traditions, etc so matter how silly I personally think they are - as long as they don't infringe on others. Forcing a banana overboard without drama is not a problem; certainly pales in comparisons to what successful religions have done when they invaded new lands." I respect local Kapus in Hawaii, I don't wave driving thru Dine (Navajo) lands, I bow my head for prayers, I stand for our national anthem, and I don't take bananas on a boat. I may not believe in most of those, but respect is a honor to live.

 

[goldenbear01]

I disagree with the idea that the problem we have now are due to the lack of respecting others beliefs. Instead, I think the problem is too many people are willing to believe things that are really silly, and sometimes destructive.

i think herein lies the crux of the problem, we seem to be speaking past each other. while the "pro-respecting the superstitious beliefs" posters are suggesting that the customers take a less confrontational and more tolerant view of the bananas-aboard-ship-equals-bad-luck superstition, the "anti-respecting the superstitious beliefs" posters seem to think this means that the "pro" group are accepting the beliefs.

from what the "pro" posters have been saying, it doesn't seem as if they "are willing to believe things that are really silly, and sometimes destructive" either. while there are some members who have reported anecdotes of mishaps upon the waters when a banana was brought aboard ship, it does not appear as if any of these members are really arguing that the cause of the problems was the presence of the banana aboard ship in any of these instances. if anything, the "pro" posters seem to agree with the general consensus that the banana superstition a little too farfetched to be believed. nonetheless, these posters are willing not to make a big deal about the superstition, if such inaction would not otherwise materially impede them in the enjoyment of their trip.

consequently, the "pro" members are not trying to persuade others to believe in the superstition. rather, they are advocating that we all take a less confrontational approach to those captains who do happen to believe in the superstition. if this approach entails being more respectful of the captain's beliefs, then so be it. nevertheless, such respectfulness is not necessarily a personal acceptance of the belief on the part the members.

i hope this helps clarify the situation a bit. if not, oh well--back to the drawing board...er bulletin board.

incidentally, while reading dandy don's post, i was reminded of a story i read in grade school where a hat seller's hats were stolen by some monkeys. after a series of confrontations with the monkeys, which all ended in the monkeys not returning the hats, the hat seller ended up tricking the monkeys into returning the hats. anyway, the story begins with the the hat seller wearing all the hats at once; i wound up with a mental image of dandy don with 20 hats on his head at once. i wonder if he happens to have a picture or video of that?

 

[DandyDon]

Monkeys and hats huh....

[c][/c]

 

[Deefstes]

Rude or not doesn't matter in this case as while at Sea the Captains word is law! If you ever spent any time in the Navy you would understand this. If not you never will. Thats just the way it is whether you like it or not.

Uhm, that's NOT the way it is, sorry to break it to you. If you're in the Navy then maybe it is the way it is but this is not the Navy. So rude or not actually does matter very much in this case. A skipper, however self entitled he may be, should run out of business if he treats his customers like rubbish. THAT's the way it is whether you like it or not.

Besides, why should an Australian dive charter operate by the standards of the US Navy? I'm sorry, that just seems like a screwy leap in logic.

 

[Boxcar Overkill]

Actually, even in the Navy the law doesn't belong to the Captain. The law is that of the country whose flag the ship sails under. The Captain is subject to it as is anyone else.

While I understand your point, Goldenbear, my point is a little larger than just the issue of the banana. I think western society has become to respectful of other's beliefs, and it has done so at its peril. In the name of diversity, it has become taboo to criticize ideas that are just plain wrong, and in some cases, dangerous.

Case-in-point: Some of the free-est democracies on earth no longer allow vocal dissent from certain ideas, regardless of how illogical or dangerous those ideas may be. All one has to do is wrap the absurd proposition in the cloak of religion and it's immune from criticism. I'm speaking of the Hate Speech laws passed in many of the common law countries. These laws have the real world effect of stiffling press coverage and editorials, which could now be called hate speech, simply because the author is pointing out that certain religious belief is both silly and dangerous. This isn't a hypothetical example.

And so here we are, as respectful as a respectful society can be. We are no longer able discriminate between ideas. "Bananas are bad luck" should be just as respected as "tobacco causes cancer," 2+2=5 should be as respected as 2+2 =4. After all, why should we be so disrespectful as to discriminate against an idea simply because it's untrue?

I disagree with this trend.

 

[Hickdive]

There's a fine line between respecting someone's right to hold their beliefs and respecting those beliefs.

I have found that believers generally confuse the two positions.

 

[maged_mmh]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lx1I0vgRvTM&feature=related

 

[seaducer]

Not all beliefs are worthy of respect. Some are worth of apathy, some are worthy of ridicule, some are worthy of disdain.

I disagree with the idea that the problem we have now are due to the lack of respecting others beliefs. Instead, I think the problem is too many people are willing to believe things that are really silly, and sometimes destructive.

Too many people are willing to turn off their rational thought and accept ideas that they should know have no basis in reality.

I don't apologize for promoting rationality over superstition.

Thank you, thank you, thank you. The real problem we have to deal with is that people put so much into their beliefs, even ones that are obviously not possible to any rational person, that when someone finally points out the obvious they go off the deep end.

The problem is not because one person doesn't "respect the beliefs of the other", especially when you have so many different ways of disrespecting something in some people's view. In other words you have no idea you just insulted someone's sense of self worth through their interperation of a dusty old book.

The real problem is that the belief exists, and is allowed to take on a level of importance that is in many cases larger that life on Earth.

 

[seaducer]

i think herein lies the crux of the problem, we seem to be speaking past each other. while the "pro-respecting the superstitious beliefs" posters are suggesting that the customers take a less confrontational and more tolerant view of the bananas-aboard-ship-equals-bad-luck superstition, the "anti-respecting the superstitious beliefs" posters seem to think this means that the "pro" group are accepting the beliefs.

Because that is exactly what you are doing. By not confronting the belief, you are validating it. You are allowing it to continue, you are giving it power.