CESA over Shared Air Ascent: Which is Best

[MauiScubaSteve]

That's a bit wordier, but pretty much says the same thing as what you quoted as being immature. I have no idea what maturity has to do with either statement, but they are both accurate.

Now, about that safety stop during CESA.......

It is immature to claim to know how someone feels based on their vote in this silly poll!

It is also immature to claim that someone is blowing off a safety stop when there is no required safety stop!

I consider it equally immature to assume the 6 CESA voters will exceed 60fps during CESA.

What I find most immature is that you seem to think the SS is an issue under the assumptions of your original post!

So far, six people feel it is better to blow off ascent rates and safety stops than to do a normal ascent, while sharing air with a buddy.

 

[Piccola]

I have never even talked to a diver who has experienced the catastrophic failure. Icy free flows would at least allow you some breathing from free flowing reg while swimming to buddy. How fast does tank empty with cut HP or LP hose at depth?

Interesting dialog. Just thought I would add. I actually had a icy free flow experience last year. I was diving with a buddy in 39F degree water at 48 fsw when my regulator went into icy free flow. Being close to my buddy, we just hung on to each other and started a calm ascent. I kept my reg in my mouth but was prepared to share air if my tank emptied completely before I hit the surface. As memory serves I think we were only 23 minutes into the dive. At the surface, I tried, and was able, to put some air in my BCD as he shut off my tank. We had a bit of a surface swim to do! Was a heck of an experience but staying calm and dealing with the situation seemed to work out. Oops, I was diving with a AL80 and I think I had about 100 psi if that, its hard to remember but I think the gauge needle was just a little off the 0.

 

[24940]

Actually, that would be better described as a poor choice of words.

It is immature to claim to know how someone feels based on their vote in this silly poll!

It is also immature to claim that someone is blowing off a safety stop when there is no required safety stop!

I consider it equally immature to assume the 6 CESA voters will exceed 60fps during CESA.

What I find most immature is that you seem to think the SS is an issue under the assumptions of your original post!

The issue is CESA or shared air. The ability to conduct a safety stop while sharing air is one of the advantages of a shared air ascent over CESA. Until you can put up and explain how one performs a safety stop on CESA, I'm holding to this.

The same goes for ascent rates. In my experience, CESA is an "oh ****" maneuver and safety flies out the window in the face of necessity.
Simple scenario, simple question, why do you insist in complicating it? I'm guessing it has to do with this blurb in your profile:

Dive History: 100+ dives with j-valve, lots of cesa's.

I used to practice CESA routinely from 80' and accompanied students as they performed the requisite 60' CESA during AOW class. I have done a LOT of them, too. It does not make them as safe as a shared air ascent, sorry. I can see how one might want to believe they are, but they just are not....

 

[captain]

Actually, that would be better described as a poor choice of words.




The issue is CESA or shared air. The ability to conduct a safety stop while sharing air is one of the advantages of a shared air ascent over CESA. Until you can put up and explain how one performs a safety stop on CESA, I'm holding to this.

The same goes for ascent rates. In my experience, CESA is an "oh ****" maneuver and safety flies out the window in the face of necessity.

I've never considered you to be an idiot, so why are you playing one on SB? Simple scenario, simple question, why do you insist in complicating it?

You don't and can't do a safety stop with an CSEA. There does that satisfy you. You can let it go now.

 

[24940]

You don't and can't do a safety stop with an CSEA. There does that satisfy you. You can let it go now.

No, I can't let it go. We're getting close, though....

If we can agree that a safety stop is better then no safety stop, then logically, we can conclude that an ascent which does not allow you to execute a safety stop is not as good as one that can.

Can we agree on that?

 

[trtldvr]

Maybe we should start a new poll. Who actully does a safety stop from a 25 ft dive????

trtldvr
Florida Keys Safe Diving Initiative

 

[oly5050user]

Actually, that would be better described as a poor choice of words.




The issue is CESA or shared air. The ability to conduct a safety stop while sharing air is one of the advantages of a shared air ascent over CESA. Until you can put up and explain how one performs a safety stop on CESA, I'm holding to this.

The same goes for ascent rates. In my experience, CESA is an "oh ****" maneuver and safety flies out the window in the face of necessity.
Simple scenario, simple question, why do you insist in complicating it? I'm guessing it has to do with this blurb in your profile:
I used to practice CESA routinely from 80' and accompanied students as they performed the requisite 60' CESA during AOW class. I have done a LOT of them, too. It does not make them as safe as a shared air ascent, sorry. I can see how one might want to believe they are, but they just are not....

What agency requires a 60' CESA in an advance/or any course??Sounds like teaching beyond scope of training to me.

Why would you want to do a safety stop in an ooa situation??Recreational diving is designed for a direct ascent to surface at any time,and this is a recreational course skill.
A safety stop is just that"a safety stop".. If you miss it the world is not going to end.It is not not a necessary deco stop.You can go direct to the surface.While in the ndl limits it is a buffer and a method for divers to be a bit more conservative,and causes them to control ascent rate by purposely aiming at 15' instead of the surface.
How is a CESA not as safe as a shared air ascent(by shared air I take it you mean buddy breath,not alternate air use).Ascent rate with a CESA is not to exceed 60' per minute,exhaling all the way,same as a normal ascent.So you don't do a safety stop,no big deal if in recreational limits.Outside of recreational limits you should have a totally independant alternate air source,so a CESA is not necessary.

 

[oly5050user]

Maybe we should start a new poll. Who actully does a safety stop from a 25 ft dive????

trtldvr
Florida Keys Safe Diving Initiative

A safety stop from a 25' dive?
the entire dive should be considered to be a safety stop...

 

[ReefHound]

How is a CESA not as safe as a shared air ascent(by shared air I take it you mean buddy breath,not alternate air use).Ascent rate with a CESA is not to exceed 60' per minute,exhaling all the way,same as a normal ascent.So you don't do a safety stop,no big deal if in recreational limits.

I already mentioned how awhile back, which I guess nobody picked up on. There may be situations where it is not advisable to come up immediately, at least without pausing to conduct a better assessment. Situations like where there is overhead boat traffic. A shared air ascent would allow you to pause, evaluate the situation better, and perhaps shoot a marker from depth.

A shared air method might also allow you to travel a short distance to an ascent line from which you can make a much safer ascent.

 

[24940]

I voted for sharing air. Some of the things I considered:

People get bent within NDL. Sometimes, they embolize within 'safe' ascent rates. It is far less stressful to have air than to be without it. Sharing air has a far wider tolerance for error than CESA.

For CESA to be a better option, for me, the above points would need to be negated by an even stronger counter point.