Why NOT DIR?

[Cave Diver]

I've had several meetings with DIR folks.

I had the joy of doing some diving near (not in) a wreck while the DIR crowd informed my kid how he was about to die a horrible death because he wasn't DIR.

I had the joy of going into a DIR oriented LDS where I was ridiculed for wanting a dive computer.

And I had the fun of running into a DIR guy on vacation who ridiculed my (and everyone elses') gear during the surface intervals.

These are NOT DIR folks. What you just posted here tells me plainly that you have had experiences with people spouting off about something of which they have limited knowledge and consequently misrepresenting an entire organization.

DIR is a team oriented philosophy. That type of attitude alienates and does not promote a team environment which is a basic tenent of DIR. Also, refer to my previous post regarding computers. If they don't know that computers can be DIR, then they are missing something...

As I have offered several times, to several others, I'm more than happy to discuss any specifics in PM if you choose to.

 

[SparticleBrane]

Kingpatzer how do you know these people were "DIR?" Backplate/wing? Long hose? OR, did they whip out a GUE card to prove that they've actually taken the classes?

Next time someone acts like that, ask them to pull out their GUE card and show it to you.
Otherwise, it sounds like they're just talking crap.

 

[Rainer]

Still, for those of us who don't dive DIR -- why should we? Why does GUE deserve my money and time over and above any other organization out there that can provide me precisely the same training oportunities?

It comes down to some people believing other agencies don't offer precisely the same opportunities. Seriously, if that wasn't the case, GUE would disappear overnight.

I'm curious, what makes you certain that the a-holes you've met claiming to be "DIR" are in fact GUE trained? The one a-hole around here who claimed to be DIR had learned all about it exclusively on the net. Not exactly a bastion of DIR/GUE knowledge...

 

[Doc Intrepid]

Dude, sounds like you've had some really crappy experiences with divers claiming to be DIR. Sound like a bunch of a-holes. That sucks. I'd be put off, too. Just isn't what I've EVER experienced around here.

King,

I don't know where you dive, but that sort of behavior is beyond the pale. I too have never experienced or witnessed that sort of moronity from DIR divers - and if I had, I suppose I too would likely be terminally irritated.

All I can say is that not all individuals who try to 'do it right' are as condescending and arrogant as those you've run across. Sorry you had that introduction...

 

[MBH]

"Because I've encountered too many DIR divers who are first class jerks." That's not an emotional response. I can get everything DIR can offer me from organizations from which I've received no abuse. Why should I choose to go DIR?

Ummm, DIR isn't an organization, and.... I would most likely get a "you are a bad boy" PM from a MOD if I posted about how many first class STROKES I've met.

 

[TSandM]

People who are legitimately excellent at what they do start with the realization that they can always be better and that that includes updating and altering even basic procedures as new information comes along. And that realization means that they are thus never "doing it right," but only, at best, "doing it well."

Well, GUE keeps updating policies and procedures, as they regard their creation and consider how it could be improved. And then we get laughed at because what's "right" has changed . . .

You know, I know a couple of DIR people who have some attitude. I don't like it, didn't like it when I first ran into it, and it's been applied to me, believe me! But it didn't stop me from looking at the system itself and seeing what it had to offer. It didn't stop me from taking instruction where, as I look back on it, I think Rainer is right -- No one ever said anything about "Doing it Right". We were taught "How we do it". In fact, one of my most powerful scuba memories so far was totally screwing up an air-share drill at the beginning of a training dive, and being told by the instructor, "You guys can blow it off if you want. You don't HAVE to do it. But this is what WE do. WE start a training dive with an air-share. You can do what you want." Nothing about doing it right. Something about stepping up to the bar, though.

But, as it has happened over time, I don't hang out with anybody with attitude. I hang out with a bunch of DIR divers who have great joy in diving, and trying to dive well. We don't always pull it off, but I can say that, with the exception of a few very discouraged moments during classes, we always have fun, and we dive safely. The system lets us meet new people and instantly form working teams, and we all understand each other.

When I read the reports of horrible instabuddy experiences on dive boats, I just give thanks that I was well trained, and that I got trained in a system where, if I go somewhere and agree to get in the water with someone else of my training level, the chances are overwhelmingly good that we won't just do okay, we will pull off a dive that delights both or all of us. Had it happen here at home, just two days ago.

I don't there's anything wrong with anybody who is diving carefully, respectfully and safely (so long as they aren't kicking up silt, that is ) but I wouldn't give up the way I've been trained to dive for anything.

 

[robertarak]

I have read all the DIR hype, and heard all the DIR haters. From my very limited experience, I can make a few observations. First off, I am not, nor do I want to be, DIR. I have my own reasons for that. However, the most skilled divers I have met have been DIR. Some of the nicest divers I have met have been DIR. This "DIR attitude" is in my experience, all internet based. Time and time again, the divers most willing to help or answer questions have been DIR, or at least on the path to the DIR collective. In all the threads I have read, and all the people I have talked to. Not once have I seen, read or heard of the GUE/DIR style being attacked for being unsafe. Not once have I heard someone say, "it's not right". I do agree that the term, "Doing It Right" does imply that the rest of us are doing it wrong, and it is mildly offensive. However, I have been doing some things wrong. Nice, friendly and helpful DIR divers have shown me what and more importantly, why it was wrong. As a result I have made some changes to my gear and my mental approach to diving, not because I want to be a DIR diver, but because it's well, right. Anyway, I just wanted to chime in with my 2 cents worth. I think if you judge a group of people only by what you read online you are missing the oppertunity to meet some great people. I shave my head, that does not make me a racist (skinhead). I am PADI trained, but that does not mean I am unskilled. Being DIR does not make anyone arrogant, having to defend their right to dive the way they chose may.

 

[Cave Diver]

Why would this be the only ditchable part of the rig?

It's not the only one.

Not a big deal to me I would dive your gas but don't get it?

Standardization of gasses has numerous benefits. Among them are ease of mixing, ease of calculating deco, maintaining close to optimal mix for depth.

This one I really don't get first I am 6'6" and 250LBS. and it just does not work for me (yes I could get one a bit longer) also I feel it is less of an entanglement hazard stowed between my wing and tank. Also it would be easier to deploy while in a tight spot in a wreck or cave. The restow is hard but could be wrapped if that is an issue to finish a dive.

Andrew G is rather tall, as are several other prominent divers and have no problem with this. You're only 6'' taller than me and I have more than enough length to accomodate this on my rig. I was originally taught the bungy method when I got cave certified. I originally hated the wrapped long hose when I first tried it. After a few dives, my perspective changed drastically. YMMV...

I get this also but still do some dives solo

This is one of those ones that I could write an essay on. PM me if you'd like to discuss it in detail.

 

[texdiveguy]

The truth of the matter is the number of DIR purist is really very small both in the ranks of recreational and technical divers. I encounter in all my diving, really very few divers that are 100% DIR minded divers. Some are 'jerks' others are not....but that is found in all groups.

 

[John_B]

If you use the terminology of "doing it right," then yes, you do go around telling people they are doing it wrong. Words actually mean things. It takes a rather high level of arrogance to presume that one has all the "right" answers, and it actually demonstrates precisely the opposite of professionalism.

People who are legitimately excellent at what they do start with the realization that they can always be better and that that includes updating and altering even basic procedures as new information comes along. And that realization means that they are thus never "doing it right," but only, at best, "doing it well."

No matter how many good ideas come out of the DIR crowd, the fanaticism and religious attitudes starts with the very terminology of the method, and precludes precisely what the more reasonable cult members seek to achieve.

Meanwhile, the fundaholic acolytes run around and insult and intimdate every non-DIR diver they encounter.

DIR does far more harm than good for the diving community precisely because they confuse arrogance with competence. And, while they have plenty of the latter, they do everything they can to wrap it up in as much of the former as possible.

That's great. I'm glad you're polite about it. That's a step up from most DIR folks one encounters.

Doc Intrepid, this is exactly why the DIR forum needs to be opt in.

John