spare air advice

[OceanicRocks]

My advice

1) Stop posting on the boards. For each one of your questions click the search button and read at least the first page of threads that pops up.

2) Take a rescue class.

3) Find a group of divers that are willing to mentor you and develop your dive skills. Dive locally.

4) Buy all of your basic gear. Don't buy a spare air, or pony. You don't need either one. You have neither the experience nor the training. Once you get both, you will realize it is a waste of money.

5) Running out of air under water is alot like running out of gas in your car. The most common reason is a significant failure of the operator to follow training.

You worry too much. Go diving.

TwoBit

hello,
1. I am new to this board and appologize if I duplicated something that was already posted. I am glad to see that so many have responded. thanks to all.

2. I may. however how would that help an out of air situation?

3. I relly woul not want to dive locally. everyone has thier own reason for gettin into diving mine should be obviouse by my name. in the northeast you would be hardpressed to find live corals and if you do you would not be able to see them and even if you can the water here is way to damn cold.

4. I have my own fins, mask, knife, snorkel and wet suit (shorty for wrmer water)... planning to buy a computer (wrist type) and a pony for added safety.

5. I understand what you are trying to say. However, the analogy does not equate. maybe if the car runs out of gas while full of smoke. although rare are you suggesting that an out of air never happens for other reasons than user error? you are an instructor and what you may many listen. The equipment at the resor on my last trip was scary, regulator hoses cracked ect. You might say why did you dive. I would have to think really hard abot that one. I guess this is why I talk about spair air source.

lastly, should I not worry? I like to dive and love to see the wildlife. However, when the dive is over I want to come home. That is why I worry. Perhaps I am justified?

 

[Doc Intrepid]

hello,
1. I am new to this board and appologize if I duplicated something that was already posted. I am glad to see that so many have responded. thanks to all.

2. I may. however how would that help an out of air situation?

3. I relly woul not want to dive locally. everyone has thier own reason for gettin into diving mine should be obviouse by my name. in the northeast you would be hardpressed to find live corals and if you do you would not be able to see them and even if you can the water here is way to damn cold.

4. I have my own fins, mask, knife, snorkel and wet suit (shorty for wrmer water)... planning to buy a computer (wrist type) and a pony for added safety.

5. I understand what you are trying to say. However, the analogy does not equate. maybe if the car runs out of gas while full of smoke. although rare are you suggesting that an out of air never happens for other reasons than user error? you are an instructor and what you may many listen. The equipment at the resor on my last trip was scary, regulator hoses cracked ect. You might say why did you dive. I would have to think really hard abot that one. I guess this is why I talk about spair air source.

lastly, should I not worry? I like to dive and love to see the wildlife. However, when the dive is over I want to come home. That is why I worry. Perhaps I am justified?

CORALCRAZED,

Welcome to the board.

You appear to be missing the point he's making (amidst all the rest of the thread...)

The entire objective is to learn how to plan your dives so that you don't run out of gas in the first place. Pick any 4-6 divers on this board at random, who have more than 200-300 dives. Ask them how often they've run out of gas. If you cannot adopt this general perspective, plan dives in advance, and remain situationally aware during your dive to track your consumption and status, then it doesn't matter whether you have a spare air or sling a spare 80, eventually you will likely find yourself at a disadvantage.

With respect to the fact that things do, in fact, go wrong sometimes despite all you've planned, thats where the second basic objective comes in. The best response to an emergency situation is another diver who is paying attention to you. A real buddy you are communicating with, not a same ocean diver. It may take some compromise, but often even buddies you meet on a dive boat make adequate dive partners. Not always, but often.

Yes, additional gear can be useful under the right circumstances, but folks are trying to get you to realize that buying it right now may not be the most cost-efficient path for you to follow.

Dive safe,

Doc

 

[OceanicRocks]

Even though every diver is responsible for his/her own safety the dive master should know better.

If anything the ascent rate should be slower closer to the surface since the greatest pressure differential is between 33 feet and the surface (pressure drops by 50% between 33 feet and the surface while the pressure drops by only 33% between 66 feet and 33 feet).

In fact, many agencies are now recommending a deep stop on dives deeper than 60 feet. For these dives they are recommending a stop for 1 minute at 50% of the maximum depth for one minute in addition to the normal safety stop.

Man, if I tell you. one thing that remember from class is that as an OW certified diver you are not allowed to go under structure without further training. the dive master kew that all except one person in the bunch was OW certified. Yup, he took the whole bunch under what I call a tight crevase style semi cave. I call it that as they allhad to go single file and the top had ocational openings here and here. however, the openings were too small tofit through. ou go it I was the only one that did not follow the bunch. Did I make a mistake? I'm not sure. My buddy was behind me but did not follow my lead and instead followed the heard. So I found myself alone on top of this reef head but could easily see all of the divers about 10 to 12 feet from me. I also know that my dive profile was no te best as I had to ascend 10 feet than back down onthe other side. this thing was about 40-55 or so feet long. was I right? I was not going to take a chance in there. I think that if one person was to get into trouble in there would have spelled trouble for the person in front and behind him/her. I was not taking that chance and made a decision to forgo the cave like natural structure.

 

[greyfin]

I own my own equipment and maintain it regularly. Maybe instead of a pony, you might want to get your own regs and BC? Another option would be to cultivate a relationship with a local dive shop, and rent equipment from them, before you go on vacation. They also may be able to give you good information on dive operators in other places, since many plan and organize trips. SB is also a good source of info.

Diving in the northeast doesn't have to be cold, and freshwater diving in the St. Lawrence River is awesome. When I do get someplace warm, I enjoy it more because I'm more comfortable in the water and love shedding some of that weight and neoprene. Just my 2 cents.:sharks:

 

[OceanicRocks]

CORALCRAZED,

Welcome to the board.

You appear to be missing the point he's making (amidst all the rest of the thread...)

The entire objective is to learn how to plan your dives so that you don't run out of gas in the first place. Pick any 4-6 divers on this board at random, who have more than 200-300 dives. Ask them how often they've run out of gas. If you cannot adopt this general perspective, plan dives in advance, and remain situationally aware during your dive to track your consumption and status, then it doesn't matter whether you have a spare air or sling a spare 80, eventually you will likely find yourself at a disadvantage.

With respect to the fact that things do, in fact, go wrong sometimes despite all you've planned, thats where the second basic objective comes in. The best response to an emergency situation is another diver who is paying attention to you. A real buddy you are communicating with, not a same ocean diver. It may take some compromise, but often even buddies you meet on a dive boat make adequate dive partners. Not always, but often.

Yes, additional gear can be useful under the right circumstances, but folks are trying to get you to realize that buying it right now may not be the most cost-efficient path for you to follow.

Dive safe,

Doc

forgive me but when is it actually the right time to consider and buy another air source? I don't have $$$ to burn but I'm talking abou being safe andifbein safe means 13 CU or 19 cu instead of 3 cu than so be it but someone saidthat don't have the training fo a pony bottle... what kind of trainfin exactly do you need to carry a pony? its like another octo right? grab and insert in your mouth clear it and breath. does it get in the way or something? whats the deal?

 

[OceanicRocks]

I own my own equipment and maintain it regularly. Maybe instead of a pony, you might want to get your own regs and BC? Another option would be to cultivate a relationship with a local dive shop, and rent equipment from them, before you go on vacation. They also may be able to give you good information on dive operators in other places, since many plan and organize trips. SB is also a good source of info.

Diving in the northeast doesn't have to be cold, and freshwater diving in the St. Lawrence River is awesome. When I do get someplace warm, I enjoy it more because I'm more comfortable in the water and love shedding some of that weight and neoprene. Just my 2 cents.:sharks:

like I mentioned before I dive to see coral... I own a coral reef tank with live coral and stare at it. If I had a big enough tank I would take a plung and look at it closer. I dove to see wreaks thay are cool but I prefer he wildlife.

wouldn't a bc and reg, spg, and octo cost way more than $200 for a pony? I would love my own gear but I just don't get out as much as I would like to justify that cost. I dive 7 days out of a year. or 7 days every two or when I get to go on an exotic vacation. I just don't know if it warrants all the equip...

 

[Tom Winters]

Skip the Spare Air. I could have gotten them for free and I still thought they weren't worth the bother.
On the other hand, if you're a helo pilot flying over water a lot, keep one in each thigh pocket.

 

[OceanicRocks]

Can we stop with the battle about Spare Air, everyone one here knows they are not worth the money and a pony is a much better idea.

BTW to all you anti pony users who say even a pony isn't worth the money and effort, you have no idea what kinda of divers you are talking to or what types of buddies those divers have. I had a scenario just a few days ago where one of the people in my group would have been otta air for the deco obligation and knowone had enough air to share really (except me) so I gave him my pony. I understand there are many details left out of that story and for good reason. There is no good reason not to carry a redundant air supply, even if you never plan to use it like me, someone else may need it.

I agree 101%. thank you. I am one that constantly checks the gauge but still its nice to know that if need be I got something extra in case of an emergency. wear i and forget it. get as much air as you can. don't get complacent. if you are out there in an out of air emergency. treat it as such. think, decide and react appropriatly and get to the surface safely. easier said than done in a real emergency. I hope I neverhave to use apony if I get one.

 

[DepthCharge]

forgive me but when is it actually the right time to consider and buy another air source? I don't have $$$ to burn but I'm talking abou being safe andifbein safe means 13 CU or 19 cu instead of 3 cu than so be it but someone saidthat don't have the training fo a pony bottle... what kind of trainfin exactly do you need to carry a pony? its like another octo right? grab and insert in your mouth clear it and breath. does it get in the way or something? whats the deal?

One thing that I learned thru my years of diving is that the best person to get me out any problem is me. Nice to have a buddy, but the only person that I can guarantee that will be there everytime is me. So all my dives are planned as self-reliant.
I do carry enough gas to get me and some one else out of a problem, even when I'm diving "solo". But that is a whole LONGGGGGGGGGG post.
It's good that you are questioning what is posted here..........My style of diving works for me. It may not work for some one else. The idea is to have system that works for you and your buddy and is safe. Only way to find out is ask around, and try the ones that make sense to you.
And it doesn't take any special training to know how to use a pony. You pretty much have it down.

 

[OceanicRocks]

Skip the Spare Air. I could have gotten them for free and I still thought they weren't worth the bother.
On the other hand, if you're a helo pilot flying over water a lot, keep one in each thigh pocket.

how do you feel about a pony with about 13 cu? thank you in advance for your expert opinion.