Reply from Viking re: Oriskany ripoff

[Wildcard]

Did he see the original post where he aided with tools? Gotta say, sounds like a JA to me.

 

[djanni]

:shakehead
This is a reply from Viking's owner regarding the removal of items from the Oriskany. My e-mail to him said that it was "shamful" for him to allow the ripping off of items from the wreck thereby damaging the very wreck he plans to use as an attraction for divers in the future. I mentioned that it was short sighted. His reply was, in all honesty, a bit of an attack on me. I found that quite interesting. The rest you can judge for yourselves.





From Viking;

Obviously, your experience in diving is not from the perspective of what really happens on the day to day basis in the real world. Viking Diving has for years tried to maintain it's reputation to customer service and "Safety" above all else when it comes to diving. "Plundering" a dive site as you put it is most often done by people like yourself... the untrained and un- experienced diver. It is not that we endorse the disturbance of any reef whether it be taking items from a wreck or shells from a reef, it is more of the fact that we are a realist in knowing from years of experience that people are going to do these things regardless of what we allow. My job as a responsible dive operator is to ensure the safety and security of the divers who intrust us to take them to any dive site and make sure that they all return to the dock safely. The implications that we are only trying to profit from this wreck or any other shows your complete lack of knowledge of what a safe dive operation is all about in the first place. I was as surprised as anyone when I saw items coming aboard from the wreck, especially knowing the potential dangers of penetration of such a deep wreck. My responsibility was to make sure that someone doesn't kill themselves in pursuit of such meaningless "junk" so to speak. My operation is not filled to the ceiling with plundered items from local wrecks as is the case with every other dive operator in Pensacola, nor have I disrespected this Country and the men who serve her by writing my advertisement on the US Flag and displaying such on the reef.
SHAME??? Obviously, should fall on you as a diver, for spouting off your e-mail without knowing the facts about anything you imply. I am a US Air Force veteran and former US Special Operator. I work with the YMCA SCUBA program because our program is the only program who does look for the protection of our marine resources and being responsible as divers in the aquatic environment. I worked with the Cousteau's in the 1980's for the same reasons. If I where to be one who was trying to profit from such things, I would have done as everyone else and purchased a cattle boat to take every idiot diver in the industry to the wreck to do as they please and not have any concern for any of their safety. People are going to do what they are going to do, regardless of what you think and if someone is going to take something from a reef, then there is really noting anyone can do to stop them. A simple look into any book about diving will show this fact. Try reading "Shadow Divers" and see the plunder of a U-boat wreck off New Jersey despite the requests of the German Government to leave the wreck as it lay...
If you as a diver are so shallow minded as to not see the facts, then just like someone who would "plunder" a reef, you are just as irresponsible of a diver... if not more so. Unlike you however... I understand that you made a hasty comment about something that you really don't know anything about and "I, for one", am not a narrow minded as to say that you would not be welcome on my boat again. Nor would I try to hide my identity (or possible embarrassment of myself for showing ignorance of facts) and not even sign a letter written in complaint of anything.
Our mission will remain as it always has... to provide the best overall diving experience to everyone on board and not to become a dive operator who is only seeking to reap the profits without regard to what is really important in diving. Protection of our resources for future generations to come (if you knew anything about what you where implying, you should have surely seen just this when you where on my boat and heard about how my daughter herself is furthering this goal with my support). I will continue to fight to increase the skills and education of divers and when all the rest are gone by the wayside (like Skippers) I will remain here serving the interests of divers who have a serious commitment to the sport and a responsibility to it's continuance. Note: I have been here since 1992... longer than any other operator in Pensacola next to SCUBA Shack. Why... because we have built our reputation on facts... not misinformation and ignorance of such facts.
It's obviously your choice to remain in the dark and if you choose to dive with other operators, I can only hope that you will survive during their short life's as dive operators (the next oldest dive charter operator in Pensacola started only three years ago, and is already seeking other employment opportunities). We will continue to provide the best dive operation in Pensacola and the safest opportunity to divers long after your dive gear is collecting dust in a garage somewhere and with our experience of supervising literally thousands of divers over the years... we will continue to know more about what is best than someone who only has their own personal dives to their knowledge of the industry.

Sincerely,

Capt. Tim Thorsen

Allison: Post an unedited copy of your e-mail to Thorsen and then it might be possible to judge his reaction to it. Since you decided not to post your e-mail to him I have to wonder how you might feel if he posted it. Like you posed his words here for all SB's members to read..

Actually........ I think this whole subject has been whipped-to-foam.

 

[rottielover]

Allison: Post an unedited copy of your e-mail to Thorsen and then it might be possible to judge his reaction to it here for all SB's members to read. Since you decided not to post your e-mail to him I have to wonder how you might feel if he posted it. Like you posed his words here.

Actually........ I think this whole subject has been whipped-to-foam.

I 2nd that motion! Please post (unedited) copy of your email to Viking.

Also if you wouldn't mind, a brief summery of your dive experiance? I'm interested because of his lines like: "Obviously, your experience in diving " and "most often done by people like yourself... the untrained and un- experienced diver. " That seems pretty harsh, especially if you didn't include how experianced you were in your email. Assumptions are bad...

 

[mike_s]

I don't get this guy. All he has to say is that from now on he will tell divers they will not be allowed to bring artefacts from the wreck onto his boat and no collection bags are allowed, and this case is closed.

I agree... if he just said "I made a poor judgement call in allowing the diver to do that and it won't happen again" I think that most folks would be ok with his admission of the mistake and support his efforts of him saying that he won't allow this again on his boat.

However, in every reply I've seen from this captain, he doesn't seem to really answer the question at hand but touts his resume, how long he's been doing stuff, etc and basically his reply gets lost in all the retoric...

I think he still has "room for redemption" here though, if he wants it.

I don't consider the items that the diver brought up as just some "meaningless junk" though... I also think some of the wording he used on Allison was attack-full also.

It will be interesting to see where the investigation on this goes. Though I believe that much of this will include the diver in question.

 

[Allison Finch]

My original e-mail to Viking;

[[Shame on your charter allowing the plunder of the Oriskany!!! I would like to dive the ship years from now and still see it as an interesting wreck, not one with plundered wires hanging all over.

SHAME!!

As a person who started diving in Pensacola in 1970 (Skippers dive shop), I am appalled at your lack of farsightedness as a business who will profit from future divers.

I, for one, will avoid your business like a plague.]]




After rereading my e-mail to Viking, I have to admit that it was strong. I wrote it immediately after reading the original thread on the artifact collection. I was, admittedly, pretty hot about it.

While I started diving in Pensacola, I no longer live in the area and have not dived there with anyone, much less Viking, in over 30 years. I did a lot of cave diving in the 70's in central and north FL and assisted in laying cables in a couple of systems. I now travel to dive, mostly, spending the majority of my time in Papua New Guinea. I'll occasionally dive off of our coast. I photo on most of my dives. Just a little history.

 

[Walter]

Allison,

Unless you were on a dive where you saw items plundered, you were wrong to send a letter to them on the topic unless that letter was to ask if it happened. Starting out a letter with "Shame" before even asking what actually happened is certainly putting the cart before the horse.

Get the facts and allow a person to defend themselves before convicting them.

 

[brutus_scuba]

My original e-mail to Viking;

[[Shame on your charter allowing the plunder of the Oriskany!!! I would like to dive the ship years from now and still see it as an interesting wreck, not one with plundered wires hanging all over.

SHAME!!

As a person who started diving in Pensacola in 1970 (Skippers dive shop), I am appalled at your lack of farsightedness as a business who will profit from future divers.

I, for one, will avoid your business like a plague.]]




After rereading my e-mail to Viking, I have to admit that it was strong. I wrote it immediately after reading the original thread on the artifact collection. I was, admittedly, pretty hot about it.

While I started diving in Pensacola, I no longer live in the area and have not dived there with anyone, much less Viking, in over 30 years. I did a lot of cave diving in the 70's in central and north FL and assisted in laying cables in a couple of systems. I now travel to dive, mostly, spending the majority of my time in Papua New Guinea. I'll occasionally dive off of our coast. I photo on most of my dives. Just a little history.

After Reading that Email I think it's importnat to note, that it is possible that he was never presenented with the allogations against his charter. He may not be aware that we are talking about somebody aiding and condoning the removal of items, versus I know someone who once put a screw from the big O in his bcd pocket.

If he wasn't aware of the allagations then his email does make a lot more sense reading it again, and it would explain why he would think that anyone who thinks that some looting on very smalll scales is gonna take place.

 

[fire_diver]

While I agree with your statement Walter, I think that has been done.

Questions were asked to the owner/operator about this specific alleged incedent. The owner/operator responded to the questions. The majority seemed to think the response was tantamount to admitting the allegations, and found no saving grace in his words.

Does this fit the concept of "getting the facts"?

FD

 

[DiveMaven]

I particularly like where he justifies taking things from the wreck by comparing it to "Shadow Divers". As I recall, John Chatterton and Richie Kohler took items off of U-869 in their attempt to identify the wreck. Much of their quest was to set history straight and to be able to notify the families of the U-Boat crew where their relatives were laid to rest. Big difference between taking things to identify a wreck and "collecting" to me.

Last I heard, the Oriskany was already identified, so there's no reason to take anything off the wreck IMO.

 

[jonnythan]

He doesn't deny the plunder in the email...

He justifies it.