Info Are Pony Bottles Dangerous?

[Boarderguy]

Should I have not taken my pony with me on a single tank dive to 150' on air? I didn't have access or experience with stages so rigging one would have been an added distraction... scooter, 119, BM pony, buddy with 130, slung pony, no scooter

Edit: scary non conforming diver pic

 

[SlugLife]

Not sure if it’s common for a vacation only diver to invest in a pony.

Right. Personally, I think the list doesn't make any logical sense when put together. Why would someone have a pony bottle, but rental equipment?

Instead, the "things that catch [his] attention" make a lot more sense if someone that is highly judgmental about someone else's diving choices. "Look at Joe with his pony bottle, he must suck as Scuba diving, which is why he needs training wheels." "Doesn't bob know swivels are failure points?" "Split fins? Lol, what a newbie!" "Yoke? What a joke! Doesn't he know Din is superior?" He lumps that in with "poorly fitting" "rookie mistakes."

Specifically, lets consider the inclusion of yoke-regulators on his list as a red-flag. Plenty of people dive with yoke regulators, who have far more skill, experience, and knowledge than him and me combined. Sure, Din is more low profile, works with higher PSI, and so on. However, there are countless regulators that are yoke and work just fine. (I'm not going to go any further into this off-topic topic)

If yoke regulators and pony bottles are on his list of red-flags, it's probably not a very useful list. He might as well put sidemount, colored webbing, aluminum backplates, flashlights, line-cutters, and fins which aren't black on that list.

 

[mr_v]

Right. Personally, I think the list doesn't make any logical sense when put together. Why would someone have a pony bottle, but rental equipment?

If yoke regulators and pony bottles are on his list of red-flags, it's probably not a very useful list. He might as well put sidemount, colored webbing, aluminum backplates, flashlights, line-cutters, and fins which aren't black on that list.

The list is not a logical AND; I should have used 'or.' It was not inclusive and, as I specifically called out, it did not represent red flags. Moreover, one's reaction to my post depends on the person's default mindset. If a person thinks "oh, he is looking down upon divers who have that," it says more about that person than me. I like to think several steps ahead. E.g.:

- A diver with split fins may be new or may have bad knees - I'll let them take time, get in/out first, take extra time.

- A diver with a swivel may experience a burst swivel that will look like a free flow from a few feet away, but the scenario will be more severe and will require sharing air.

- Yoke regulators are more likely than not to be on rental equipment - expect that something may go wrong. The same applies to obviously rental equipment that people are not familiar with. Usually these folks will need extra time.

- People who act nervous and are super talkative may not be ready to dive.

- Rebreather divers will need more room and won't be chatty as they're doing pre-checks.

- Drysuit divers will want to get in the water faster when diving in warm climates. Let them in first, if you can.

- Anyone with scooters, stage bottles will require extra assistance when getting in/out. Give them a lot more room in case if something goes wrong.

- Pony bottle divers - probably better solo divers than buddies, something to keep in mind if you're forced to instabuddy.

It is simple context awareness, but you choose to interpret it the way you want.

Peace~

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

“Yoke regulators are more likely than not to be on rental equipment - expect that something may go wrong. The same applies to obviously rental equipment that people are not familiar with. Usually these folks will need extra time.”

Really??
So a majority of divers not using rental gear are using DIN regs? Interesting.
I think the majority of regs used around the world are yoke, both rental and owned.
I hear that the majority of rental tanks around the world, especially in tropical vacation spots are yoke, but what do I know.
I’ll have to keep an eye out for those rank amateurs using yoke regs because you never know when it will blow up!

 

[johndiver999]

Your experience may vary. I've seen enough pony bottles on cattle boats on both coasts.

Pony bottles, split fins, poorly fitting (and obviously rental) equipment, swivels, rookie mistakes on the surface, very large knives, and or yoke regulators catch my attention. These things aren't red flags per se, but they certainly raise my awareness. It paid off at least once: a struggling but chatty diver almost jump off with a tank that was not fastened properly. That "1st stage to back of the skull" impact would have been awful.

If you want to flame, go ahead. But context awareness is a critical survival skill and I'll stand on that.

I would ignore almost all those things. I've seen my share of CF's and will look to more important things. Is the gear all new and matching brand(s). The general demeanor of the diver and the ease with which gear is assembled. If they have a spare air. If they take more than 60 seconds screwing with the computer. If their exposure suit is reasonably appropriate for the conditions. If their weighting looks reasonable. Anyone who mentions their certification level and particularly if they mention they are a DM or instructor.

Pony bottle, Din Fitting or size of a knife are not something I would look at

 

[mr_v]

I would ignore almost all those things. I've seen my share of CF's and will look to more important things. Is the gear all new and matching brand(s). The general demeanor of the diver and the ease with which gear is assembled. If they have a spare air. If they take more than 60 seconds screwing with the computer. If their exposure suit is reasonably appropriate for the conditions. If their weighting looks reasonable. Anyone who mentions their certification level and particularly if they mention they are a DM or instructor.

Pony bottle, Din Fitting or size of a knife are not something I would look at

Well yeah, all the stuff you've mentioned, too. I don't want this thread to go more down then rabbit hole than it is already. The point is - it is okay to evaluate the context and anticipate what may happen. Also, as this thread shows, everyone's context evaluation and reactions differ.

 

[NW Dive Dawg]

The list is not a logical AND; I should have used 'or.' It was not inclusive and, as I specifically called out, it did not represent red flags. Moreover, one's reaction to my post depends on the person's default mindset. If a person thinks "oh, he is looking down upon divers who have that," it says more about that person than me. I like to think several steps ahead. E.g.:

Let's take these one at a time

- A diver with split fins may be new or may have bad knees - I'll let them take time, get in/out first, take extra time.

But then again, a diver with split fins may also be a far superior and far more experienced diver than anyone else on the boat and it may be you that needs more time.

- A diver with a swivel may experience a burst swivel that will look like a free flow from a few feet away, but the scenario will be more severe and will require sharing air.

A burst swivel is about as uncommon as a burst LP or HP hose or any other equipment failure. As long as all equipment is installed, inspected and maintained properly, really not likely . Also, a burst swivel does not require sharing air if the diver is experienced, trained, competent and equipped properly......thus the redundancy of a pony system.

- Yoke regulators are more likely than not to be on rental equipment - expect that something may go wrong. The same applies to obviously rental equipment that people are not familiar with. Usually these folks will need extra time.

Are you saying that you should expect that folks using yolks are more likely to have something go wrong and usually will need extra time?

- People who act nervous and are super talkative may not be ready to dive.

I guess I can understand the nervous part.......but super talkative. I don't get that.

- Rebreather divers will need more room and won't be chatty as they're doing pre-checks.

Unless of course they happen to be a chatty rebreather diver.

- Drysuit divers will want to get in the water faster when diving in warm climates. Let them in first, if you can.

I'm onboard with that! But then, I don't dive dry in warm climates.

Anyone with scooters, stage bottles will require extra assistance when getting in/out. Give them a lot more room in case if something goes wrong.

Don't forget camera gear!

- Pony bottle divers - probably better solo divers than buddies, something to keep in mind if you're forced to instabuddy.

I actually find that Pony bottle divers tend to be better trained and less likely to require my assistance so if the op requires that I have a buddy, then I think I prefer a pony bottle diver for an insta buddy.

It is simple context awareness, but you choose to interpret it the way you want.

Good point so that's exactly what I did above!

Peace~

Peace back at ya!!!

 

[mr_v]

@NW Dive Dawg ,

Divers who choose to have split fins due to knee issues may need assistance or extra time getting in/out of the boat. Yes, they may be good in water.

When swivels fail, they may look like free flowing regs to someone who's unaware of the root cause/setup.

Yoke attachments are preferred by dive operators for simplicity. There is a chance that a diver who is diving with a yoke reg is using rental gear which may not be familiar to the diver.

Being extra chatty may be a sign of discomfort, anxiety.

I feel this thread's done.

< / >

 

[NAUI Wowie]

Branching off another thread, which went mildly off-topic:

1. Are pony bottles dangerous?
2. What are the hazards of pony bottles?
3. What safety advice would you give to someone using a pony bottle?
4. What other advice (sizing, selection, configuration, etc) would you give for pony bottle use?

This is mostly focused on #1, but I've included #2, #3, and #4 to make the thread a little more useful. Given this is somewhat of a debate thread, remember to keep it civil, we don't want the mods to come along with their tools.

1 NO
2 none normally
3 do not use as part of your dive plan. Use only in case of your or others emergency
4 the deeper and riskier the dive aka wreck or cavern the larger the pony IMO

The greatest benefit of having a pony is NOT having more air. The benefit is having a completely SEPARATE air source.

you can dive with an 80 a 100 or sometimes a 120 steel like I do in cold water, they ALL run out of air if you are not paying attention. It isnt the amount of air you carry. It is having a separate emergency air source for others or you.

octos are fine but another air source is far superior.

and unlike other posters saying a spare air 3oz is dangerous. Wrong. its better than nothing when you take your last breath off your main tank. a 3oz can help someone do an emergency ascent without dying.

personally I dive all over the world with my 19. I take it to Philippines etc etc. If local in Monterey CA I will practice with a 40 sometimes but its a headache so I stick with the 19.

btw I have it slung in front but very close fitting to my body. nothing loose and hanging. I would never mount it upside down on my back. Why? I can hand that baby off to any diver and back off. On your back its got many more limitations. with really no upside. its out of the way while slung in front also.

 

[Boarderguy]

I can hand that baby off to any diver and back off. On your back its got many more limitations.

Back mounted pony frees up your front/side for camera or hunting gear. A BM pony is for you and your only. Piss Off Not Yours. If a buddy needs air they get your back gas and you go to your octo until you reach the point in back gas pressure where you need to go to your pony and they stay on back gas. Number one goal is you get up alive with your buddy. If you run out of your pony because you went to that first while your buddy is on your back gas then you're SOL.