Cave diver drowns - Jackson Blue Springs, Florida

[DiveLvr]

That's a tough deal to leave your buddy. I assume by being "caught" they meant either entangled or stuck behind a restriction?

 

[reddeaddiver]

"Whoever" is responsible for accident analysis nowadays. The same "they" we've all been complaining about not releasing reports or analysis of cave diving accidents for literal years, now.

Or, someone random could be a hero and just start FOIA'ing the investigative reports from the appropriate law enforcement agencies involved in accidents/recoveries. I'm kind of surprised that hasn't happened yet, honestly.

Accident analysis is a tricky thing, and while FOIA sounds simple enough it can be a long process, and some states/jurisdictions have limitations on it so sometimes you can get denied if you're just a random person making a request out of mobid curiosity. The hardest part is that those writing up the reports (law enforcement, coroners, etc.) may not be divers, so their interpretations lack some understanding. This is why we rely on boards like NSS-CDS for their final interpretations in a report. I know its hard on us, since we're all 6 degrees from the Kevin Bacon of diving and in some ways we all know each other. When one of us doesn't make it we all feel it, and it makes us a little more human than we'd like to admit.

 

[Manatee Diver]

However, I now think that it cannot hurt for people to be reminded of the things that can kill us and also providing examples of how it did kill someone.

I think it reinforces lessons.

Take gas switches, when I did stage cave it was mentioned to do the entire gas switch procedure even at the surface. I neglected that because "How am I going to screw up when I checked the bottle when I put it on a couple of minutes ago?" Andrew's death in 2022 made me rethink that, and I no longer make that assumption.

 

[Manatee Diver]

This is why we rely on boards like NSS-CDS for their final interpretations in a report.

I think after years of zero accident analysis and lessons only being passed through the rumor mill, people don't have much confidence that NSS-CDS will follow through. Like we have reports for the 2021 Ginnie accident, the 2022 Roaring River and Manatee accidents. But we are missing the 2022 Ginnie and Buford accidents.

I think that if the NSS-CDS wants to help build up that trust they could do that with a bit more transparency. At least have a list of accidents that they are investigating so people know that they are working on them and not being forgotten. And if they aren't investigating an accident because it was likely a medical event say that as well.

 

[J-Vo]

Quote from RF4 about a full accident report being something like: "Two divers went into the cave, one came out".

From the perspective of a none diving county Sharif, this does get fully to the root human factor incident cause. WTF would you go in there in the first place, problem solved.

 

[The Chairman]

people don't have much confidence that NSS-CDS will follow through

I've had officers of the NSS-CDS tell me that I don't have a right to know. I was resented for even asking the question.

 

[PEDiver]

I've had officers of the NSS-CDS tell me that I don't have a right to know. I was resented for even asking the question.

Sounds like typical cave country politics. So nauseating.

 

[boulderjohn]

Back when the IUCRR stopped posting reports on their website, they posted an explanation on Cave Divers Forum. It amounted to "Our attorneys advised against it for fear of lawsuits." I suspect a lot of that is going on now.

 

[boulderjohn]

Several years ago there was a fatality at Manatee Springs involving a team of cave divers from China. I ended up writing the report for that. When I asked IUCRR to check and confirm all my details, they not only confirmed it, they took it as their report.

It was an amazingly easy report to write. I just went to the published report on the incident by the lead diver. He wrote all the details out. He also offered an analysis--it was all my fault. I should have verified the exit. No one is to blame but me.

He was able to do that because everyone involved was Chinese. There would be no lawsuit. If it had been an American group with an American group leader, and he had written that, the lawsuit would have been huge.

 

[kensuf]

I've had officers of the NSS-CDS tell me that I don't have a right to know. I was resented for even asking the question.

Are you talking about the incident at eagles nest where the volunteers spent 3 days working around the clock without much in the way of sleep pulling equipment and bodies while people on scubaboard were demanding information, or another incident?