Zeagle help needed

[scubapro50]

Scott now has my regulator, and the serial number, he has bent over backwards to help me and I really appreciate it. I did'nt realize I was buying off the "grey market". LP has a huge website and sells lots of different brands of dive equipment. Having always bought dive equipment from my LDS I didnt realize there was this grey market. I have been a diver since 1978 and just sold a 20 year old sherwood magmum. I try to buy good equipment and use it for a long time, that is why I was buying the Zeagle. If I had found this website before I bought I would have been better educated. I would also like to know how these regulators and other dive equipment gets into the gray market. I would think that LP has a large stock of Zeagle products.
I would'nt think that much equipment could walk out the back door.

.............. are you sure .... while going to school I worked for Toy R Us ..... A receiving clerk and a security guard were stealing bikes thru the back door durning the night shift. It was estimated that they stole over 1,000 bikes within a year before getting caught. The "bad" inventory on missing bikes made TRU set up hidden cameras to see what was going on.

 

[redacted]

Zeagle can stop selling to any one of it's "authorized" dealers if they find out this is going on. If Zeagle really wants to stop the "grey" marketing of it merchandise then they need to take steps to shut down such dealerships.

Maybe not. Some of those authorized dealers are in foreign countries where laws may not be the same as in the US. Pulling a dealership based on the shops resale decisions may leave Zeagle liable. Plus, Zeagle may not want to lose the entire market of Isreal or Germany (one shop each), for example. I believe LP's suppliers are very diverse. While LP may prefer buying from US shops and avoid the 2-way overseas shipping cost, I'm sure they are not leaving themselves entirely vulerable to lawful actions the mfgrs may take.

 

[scubapro50]

This is why I think Zeagle needs to find out where the merchandise came from. Lets stop guessing and find out an answer. If it is an overseas dealer there may not be much Zeagle can do. Also if a dive shop in the U.S.A. sold all its inventory before going out of business then there is nothing Zeagle can do. In either case supply would be limited on one hand and shipping would be expensive from an overseas distributor. SCOTT .... investigate and let us know .... what's going on ?

 

[crpntr133]

scuabpro50, I think if you did a little research here you would find the answer to your question. Actually it has already been answered in this thread. I know we aren't Scott Zeagle we are just a bunch of divers.

One question for anyone!! How do you expect ANY manufacturer to track a specific part? Do you think that they keep track that reg xyz went to Fun Time Scuba and reg abc went to Scuabtoys...I HIGHLY doubt it. Not even the auto makers do that and yes I know that for fact. So how is anyone to know where LP's merchandise came from if you can't track them???

This is just like people in prison making money hand of fist because they have the right sources on the outside.

 

[scubapro50]

scuabpro50, I think if you did a little research here you would find the answer to your question. Actually it has already been answered in this thread. I know we aren't Scott Zeagle we are just a bunch of divers.

One question for anyone!! How do you expect ANY manufacturer to track a specific part? Do you think that they keep track that reg xyz went to Fun Time Scuba and reg abc went to Scuabtoys...I HIGHLY doubt it. Not even the auto makers do that and yes I know that for fact. So how is anyone to know where LP's merchandise came from if you can't track them???

This is just like people in prison making money hand of fist because they have the right sources on the outside.

I worked as an auditor for a company that did over 120 million in sales a year. We could research back and track just about anything we sold using what we call an RN number printed on the item that gave us a batch. Using this batch number we could follow the paperwork trail (all the way back to China or Japan or where ever) and tell you where it was made, when it was purchased wholesale, shipped and arrived in the U.S. and distribited to what outlets we serviced. Scott has a serial number and should be able to use his influence to find the paperwork trail. The serial number will let him know how long ago the regulator was manfuctored. Now base on this he could look over invoices from that time period to see where the product was sent. He could also double back and see if there is a pattern of numbers close to the one in question that where sent to other distributers and check the records of the final customers to see where they listed place of purchased. Moreover by colateing the serial numbers with registrations he could get a good idea of the amount of merchandise he is selling to the "grey" market. NOW I HOPE THIS ISN'T TRUE ....... but many small manfuctures say they want to stop the "grey" market sales but in fact they really need the dollars to stay in business so they overlook or do nothing to surpress it. It all comes down to the "mighty buck" ? I guarantee you that if I were in his place i could could find out what was going on. He has the weight (no pun intended) to throw around to get things done.

 

[kabluton]

I worked as an auditor for a company that did over 120 million in sales a year. We could research back and track just about anything we sold using what we call an RN number printed on the item that gave us a batch. Using this batch number we could follow the paperwork trail (all the way back to China or Japan or where ever) and tell you where it was made, when it was purchased wholesale, shipped and arrived in the U.S. and distribited to what outlets we serviced. Scott has a serial number and should be able to use his influence to find the paperwork trail. The serial number will let him know how long ago the regulator was manfuctored. Now base on this he could look over invoices from that time period to see where the product was sent. He could also double back and see if there is a pattern of numbers close to the one in question that where sent to other distributers and check the records of the final customers to see where they listed place of purchased. Moreover by colateing the serial numbers with registrations he could get a good idea of the amount of merchandise he is selling to the "grey" market. NOW I HOPE THIS ISN'T TRUE ....... but many small manfuctures say they want to stop the "grey" market sales but in fact they really need the dollars to stay in business so they overlook or do nothing to surpress it. It all comes down to the "mighty buck" ? I guarantee you that if I were in his place i could could find out what was going on. He has the weight (no pun intended) to throw around to get things done.

If I was a regulator manufacturer (or any product for that matter) I would want to sell my product to as many people as possible. I am assuming that Zeagle makes a profit on each regulator they sell or they wouldn't be in business. For argument's sake let's say they make $100 of each regulator sold. If the regulator cost's $100 to make (hypothetical) and they sell it to authorized dealer's for $200, it should be up to the dealer how much to charge on the showroom floor.

I am making an assumption here but I think that most of these manufacturers have a contract with the "authorized" dealers not to sell their products for below a certain price. That smacks of "price fixing" and technical it is illegal.

Enter Leisurepro who obviously doesn't have this agreement with any of the manufacturers and therefore can sell the equipment for a lot lower than almost any LDS I have ever seen. They still make a profit (albeit a lower one) but make up for it by selling lots of volume.

I was an economics major and the whole scuba equipment business model makes no sense to me at all. The "invisible hand" of the market economy is supposed to ultimately decide the optimal price of goods. When prices are artificially set higher than most people would choose to pay, the system is flawed.

Maybe Scott can pipe up and shed some light.

My brain hurts! uttahere

 

[crpntr133]

I worked as an auditor for a company that did over 120 million in sales a year. We could research back and track just about anything we sold using what we call an RN number printed on the item that gave us a batch. Using this batch number we could follow the paperwork trail (all the way back to China or Japan or where ever) and tell you where it was made, when it was purchased wholesale, shipped and arrived in the U.S. and distribited to what outlets we serviced. Scott has a serial number and should be able to use his influence to find the paperwork trail. The serial number will let him know how long ago the regulator was manfuctored. Now base on this he could look over invoices from that time period to see where the product was sent. He could also double back and see if there is a pattern of numbers close to the one in question that where sent to other distributers and check the records of the final customers to see where they listed place of purchased. Moreover by colateing the serial numbers with registrations he could get a good idea of the amount of merchandise he is selling to the "grey" market. NOW I HOPE THIS ISN'T TRUE ....... but many small manfuctures say they want to stop the "grey" market sales but in fact they really need the dollars to stay in business so they overlook or do nothing to surpress it. It all comes down to the "mighty buck" ? I guarantee you that if I were in his place i could could find out what was going on. He has the weight (no pun intended) to throw around to get things done.

Again, I highly doubt that they keep track of serial numbers. If so, why do you have to keep a sales receipt as proof of where you bought it? They would know if the item was bought through a authorized dealer just by looking at the serial. Also sometimes you send in a card or register online. IF they kept track you wouldn't have to tell them where you bought it they would know.
Also there are many ways that a authorized dealer could get nabbed for selling something to LP that he never sold to LP. Say LDS(a) sells his stock of a mask to LDS(b). Then LDS(b) goes out and sells to LP, LDS(a) gets nabbed for it. Yes there is always the paper trail but who is to say that they didn't knowingly sell this to LDS(b).
Way too many legal matters involved in this to even remotely think about holding someone liable. It all sounds great on paper but apply it to the real life and sometimes it just doesn't work. Kinda like a blue print, sometimes it just won't work.

I PM'd Scott on another matter and haven't gotten a reply so I guess we get to beat on each other for another day or two.

 

[ScottZeagle]

Whew....

Haven't we all beat this horse before???

I have been in Seattle since Wednesday night, so I am a little behind on my SB reading. I leave for the airport at 4:30 in the morning, so forgive me if I don't go through the entire LP thing AGAIN. I know it is in some other posts from an earlier date...

Re: serial numbers - yes, I'm sure I could make someone dig through a mountain of records to find certain serial numbers, but which one of our 2 customer service reps should I use - and who will answer the phones and take new orders while this task is carried out??

The simple truth is, we have cut off dealers in the past for selling to LP, which has cost us 100's of thousands of dollars in sales, yet we have never kept them from getting our stuff...the old saying, "where there is a will, there's a way" never rang more true.

We are seriously looking at trying a different approach, but I am not at liberty to discuss that at this time. maybe in 30-45 days...

As far as pricing goes, we have a minimum ADVERTISED price that our dealers must adhere to. We do not tell them what they must sell it for in their stores - they can give the stuff away FREE if they so desire - so I think the "price fixing" theory is a bit flawed...

Gotta finish skimming the new posts and see what else needs answered, so forgive me if I don't labor these points....

Scott

 

[D_B]

Thank you Scott
I (we) appreciate your presence here, your answers, and your time and I know that if I did not have all my gear already, you would get my business because of it

... besides , I thought I saw that horse move , mabe hit it again

DB

 

[scubapro50]

thanks Scott ....... I knew you would sooner or later get back to us ..... sorry i missed you at Seaspace maybe I'll ketch ya at DEMA ..... Dan