Yukon tangent thread

[divemaster dave]

It's easy to file a compliant. Sometimes a bit harder to get that complaint past the summary judgment phase. That's where the judge (not a jury) will look at the law, facts, and circumstances and decide if there's enough there to bother a jury with.

I have yet to see a motion for summary judgment granted in a diving case, although such motions are routine and have been made in almost every case I've ever worked on. I'm sure that there is a case (or two) out there where this has happened, but it is very unusual.

With all of this legal speak that seems to be siding with the boat, I wonder if the family will be able to pursue anything civilly to get some peace that this won't happen to anyone else? Or has that already been thrown out by the experts here. Perhaps the family could at least get half his charter fee back since it was a one way trip? No disrespect to the deceased, just would want to see someone fried if this happened to my family but most have dismissed that here already.

 

[divemaster dave]

Terrible choice of words from last year's San Diego incident that I referred to in an earlier post. Something about throwing stones and glass houses.

Scuba dive company in fatal accident has history of violations - San Diego, California News Station - KFMB Channel 8 - cbs8.com


For others working in the dive industry, this latest scuba fatality comes as no surprise.

"I knew it was going to happen and can't believe it didn't happen sooner. That's what when through my mind," Ryan Wilbarger of Waterhorse Charters told News 8.

 

[seansrs36]

Just so I understand this correctly, are you saying that our only choices are 1) dive solo or 2) dive with someone we don't know?

]

Basically yes those are your only choices if you go on a boat and do not know anyone. I have made many dive trips to Florida solo and had to pair up with someone and it sucked. Either they were vacation divers only or inexperienced. Now that have logged a couple of hundred dives, I dive solo most of the time when I dive here in southern California. Most of the photographers I know dive solo as well. The only time I dive with someone is if I know them and have done with them before.

 

[Fish-R-Man]

Terrible choice of words from last year's San Diego incident that I referred to in an earlier post. Something about throwing stones and glass houses.

Scuba dive company in fatal accident has history of violations - San Diego, California News Station - KFMB Channel 8 - cbs8.com


For others working in the dive industry, this latest scuba fatality comes as no surprise.

"I knew it was going to happen and can't believe it didn't happen sooner. That's what when through my mind," Ryan Wilbarger of Waterhorse Charters told News 8.

After reading the this news story, it looks to me like there is a fairly high number of unqualified divers in the San Diego area to have that many accidents in a short period of time or maybe these company's just have bad luck when it comes to their customers. Most of the problems that are listed look to be diver issues, not the dive vessel.

As far as the vessel issues, I have been a chief engineer on boats since 1980. I would not hesitate to say that 50% of the dive charter boats that I have been on over the years have some mechanical problems that are obvious to me, but not to the average customer. You have to understand that the crews on these boats are not mechanics and for the most part unless a problem shuts them down, they will work around it until they get time to do the repairs. If they do have an issue and have the call the CG, they will get a citation. That doesn't necessarily make them an unsafe operation.

 

[D_B]

What if it's found that the diver would not have survived even if somneone was right there by his side and noticed something wrong right then? ... would you still want to bankrupt the dive op ?
... it seems as if some would no matter what the outcome of the investigation

 

[Adobo]

Basically yes those are your only choices if you go on a boat and do not know anyone. I have made many dive trips to Florida solo and had to pair up with someone and it sucked. Either they were vacation divers only or inexperienced. Now that have logged a couple of hundred dives, I dive solo most of the time when I dive here in southern California. Most of the photographers I know dive solo as well. The only time I dive with someone is if I know them and have done with them before.

Well, there is the obvious choice of bringing your trusted buddy to the boat. If your trusted buddy flakes, you could always call the dive.

In the context of the Yukon, there are two scenarios that are possible - either a diver is a local or a diver is from out of town. If a diver is a local, why would it be so hard to set up this dive with a trusted buddy? If a diver is from out of town, I would question the wisdom of going to a 100ft dive, in cold water, with air on an al80, solo.

I live in NorCal. For a dive like this, this is how I would approach it:
- post on scubaboard or some other forum frequented by San Diego local divers. I would indicate that I am looking for dive buddies to dive with while in San Diego. I would indicate my experience and also the type of buddy I am looking for (not "same ocean, same day" buddies)
- I would then do a 30 ft reef shore dive to make sure that I am compatible with any generous diver willing to dive with me. If there are any "issues" to sort out, a 30ft reef dive is the second best place to discover them.
- Assuming all goes well on the 30 ft reef dive, we could progress to something more elaborate/complex such as the Yukon.

I realize that this process requires more work up front. I also realize that this sets you up to have to thumb a dive like the Yukon when you discover on your 30ft reef dive that you and your buddy are not compatible. But it is a good process that allows you to understand what you are in for long before you step on a boat.

Many proponents of solo diving like to portray a process by which a diver shows up on a cattle boat and gets paired up with some lunatic. They go on about how terrible this experience is and therefore all people are just better off to go solo in the first place. The reality is, if you step foot on that boat without knowing whether or not you have a good buddy to dive with, it is because you haven't done the legwork up front.

BTW, I have never had to dive with an unknown buddy. Ever. And I certainly would not agree to dive with an unknown buddy to a dive like the Yukon. I have on a few occasions chosen to dive with strangers. Those occasions have largely been 30ft reef dives.

 

[Hetland]

Terrible choice of words from last year's San Diego incident that I referred to in an earlier post. Something about throwing stones and glass houses.

Scuba dive company in fatal accident has history of violations - San Diego, California News Station - KFMB Channel 8 - cbs8.com


For others working in the dive industry, this latest scuba fatality comes as no surprise.

"I knew it was going to happen and can't believe it didn't happen sooner. That's what when through my mind," Ryan Wilbarger of Waterhorse Charters told News 8.

We get it Dave. You have a problem with the dive op, and you think everyone who's ever cashed a check from the place should be drawn and quartered.

A grudge is the only explanation for your continued beating of a dead horse. A grudge is the only explanation for your showing up at the dock to see who's crewing the boat, and your refusal (despite being a dive master with 5000+ dives under your belt) to acknowledge even the possibility that this incident is the fault of the diver because he ran out of air at 100fsw. I also find it unbelievable that such an experienced combat veteran, dive master, dive instructor, and life-saver such as yourself wouldn't be able to understand that unresponsive ooa at 100fsw with no buddy taking immediate action, is a virtual guarantee of brain death.

As for your post above.... I'm pretty sure Ryan Wilbarger wasn't on the boat at the time (IJS)

 

[N2DeepInAz]

Terrible choice of words from last year's San Diego incident that I referred to in an earlier post. Something about throwing stones and glass houses.

Scuba dive company in fatal accident has history of violations - San Diego, California News Station - KFMB Channel 8 - cbs8.com


For others working in the dive industry, this latest scuba fatality comes as no surprise.

"I knew it was going to happen and can't believe it didn't happen sooner. That's what when through my mind," Ryan Wilbarger of Waterhorse Charters told News 8.

You took that statement completely out of context to attempt to back up your pathetic attempt to paint this organization as completely at fault.

If you watched the video or read the entire article, he was commenting on DCI and the issues they continued to have with their dive boats and how their operation is run, not his own. The history of incidents in the article is centered on DCI and their dive operations. I see reading comprehension isn't one of your strengths.

Once again you still didn't add anything positive or factual to this discussion, you simply continued to grind your axe with the organization.

 

[Seasaw]

He won't let go. The more people respond to his inane comments, the more we fuel his rage. I have read every single post on this thread in an effort to learn from this tragedy. I haven't learned much. It seems most posters have an "agenda" and not an open mind. There are a number of notable exceptions, true contributors. Going forward.... as I scan down the posts, I will simple skip over his posts and continue to read everyone else's. If I ignore him.... maybe he'll go away, maybe not. I won't try to educate him, because as a wise man once said:
"Never try and teach a pig to sing.... it's a waste of time and it irritates the pig."
Condolences to the family and all those involved.

 

[mrfixitchapman]

I'd dive the Yukon with Puffer . DB, too.

DC