Yukon tangent thread

[Jax]

I don't understand what you people expect from a dive boat. Do you want the crew to dive for you also?? Why can't you grow up and take some responsibility for yourself. Noone should have to hold your hand and tell you whether or not you are ready for anything especially when the boat is going to something like the YUKON, a wreck in which any certified diver should be able to safely dive on.

Dude, I think you missed it that quite a few do not believe the departure of the dive boat contributed. However, many do believe the dive boat should have taken roll call.

 

[JahJahwarrior]

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A ScubaBoard Staff Message...

Quit the veiled threats, and the rude, insulting and off topic posts, or thread bans will be used as necessary to keep this thread useful and on topic. Lots of good information here, don't push the limits to make your points, please.

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[Ken Kurtis]

I was actually curious because nearly a decade ago they switched to the following:

"Demonstrate novice level swim stroke proficiency in any of the following strokes: crawl, side, breast, elementary back or back stroke. Classic stroke combinations are not necessary to meet this requirement as long as forward progress is achieved. , e.g. no particular kick or arm action is necessarily required and alack of either is also acceptable. Students shall complete at least 15 continuous stroke cycles while being evaluated by an instructor. A stroke cycle is considered to be either arm or leg action or a combination thereof resulting in forward movement until repeated."

First of all, switched from what to what? You started out in your previous post by claiming there was no swim standard and asked me to document that. I did.

Now you quote something that has nothing to do with there actually being or not being a swim standard but seems to tell people what kind of swimming is acceptable for the swim standard that you say doesn't exist.

You asked me to quote chapter and verse so I'd ask the same consideration of you (and I'm not trying to be contentious here, I just think you're incorrect).

Can you tell me what page in the current NAUI Standards & Practics (S&P) this appears?

This just doesn't sound like NAUI jargon for standards. NAUI generally writes in bullet points, as in the example I cited in my previous post of the swim standards. Whjat you're quoting either comes from another agency, or they're something that's in a glossary-of-terms definition which, technically, are not the standards.

Not to make this sound like agency-bashing, but terms like "stroke cycle" (akin to "fin kick cycle") are more commonly found in PADI literature, not NAUI.

You sure you're not mixing apples and oragnges? Because you did specifically ask about NAUI and I specifically cited for you what I believe to be true (with a page reference no less).

Hopefully you'll return the courtesy.

- Ken

 

[tracydr]

Not to derail this but does anyone wonder how "Master Diver The Engineer" is allowed to teach classes to all these students who need to be retrained? According to my PADI DM book I may assist in a class provided I am a certified DM, not "Master Diver" and can't actually teach the class.

 

[TheEngineer]

So have you done any diving or training recently? Everything seems "a while ago".

I last dove Spectre 2 years ago or so. That is a while. I rarely dive from boats these days. I don't care for the atmosphere on many of them nor do I enjoy the crowding. There are a few I enjoy, but usually I prefer finding a good beach dive.

As for where I graduated from, I realize I haven't answered you.

 

[TheEngineer]

First of all, switched from what to what? You started out in your previous post by claiming there was no swim standard and asked me to document that. I did.

They switched from the 225 yard requirement to the exact verbiage I posted. Either your documents are not up to date, or they switched back to the 225 yard requirement sometime in the last year. That is possible, but I haven't heard of it happening.

Now you quote something that has nothing to do with there actually being or not being a swim standard but seems to tell people what kind of swimming is acceptable for the swim standard that you say doesn't exist.

I just quoted the NAUI S&P. I would think you would recognize it.

You asked me to quote chapter and verse so I'd ask the same consideration of you (and I'm not trying to be contentious here, I just think you're incorrect).

Can you tell me what page in the current NAUI Standards & Practics (S&P) this appears?

Page 2.27. It was revised about a decade ago and excluded the 225 yard requirement. If that embarrasses you, good. It should. It is unacceptable, in my opinion, that that be the swim requirement for a scuba diver.

This just doesn't sound like NAUI jargon for standards. NAUI generally writes in bullet points, as in the example I cited in my previous post of the swim standards. Whjat you're quoting either comes from another agency, or they're something that's in a glossary-of-terms definition which, technically, are not the standards.

That is the first bullet point. They still require the 10 minute water tread or float.

Not to make this sound like agency-bashing, but terms like "stroke cycle" (akin to "fin kick cycle") are more commonly found in PADI literature, not NAUI.

I agree. It's embarrassing. To my knowledge, PADI still has the 200 yard requirement, or 300 yards if you choose to use fins and a snorkel (which most bad or incapable swimmers will choose because it hides their limitations).

You sure you're not mixing apples and oragnges? Because you did specifically ask about NAUI and I specifically cited for you what I believe to be true (with a page reference no less).

Hopefully you'll return the courtesy.

- Ken

Consider it returned. If I sound snide, I don't intend to. This is another unfortunate fact that, right or wrong, does exist.

 

[TheEngineer]

Not to derail this but does anyone wonder how "Master Diver The Engineer" is allowed to teach classes to all these students who need to be retrained? According to my PADI DM book I may assist in a class provided I am a certified DM, not "Master Diver" and can't actually teach the class.

What's to wonder? I assist these classes, I do not teach them directly. I also do not assist under any PADI standard.

 

[divemaster dave]

I don't understand what you people expect from a dive boat.

A good start would be that when I surface the boat is there and the crew remembers that I was diving and perhaps did a roll call before leaving me behind.

With your rationale why should the boat even staff a DM, have CPR training or carry Oxygen. Perhaps they shouldn't even need to be certified divers and just serve up some food and watch you dive.

The boat should provide a safe and fun atmosphere and even though every diver is responsible for himself a boat should be able to perform a rescue in case it's needed. Or is that too much to ask for a professional OP? Perhaps it's too much to ask for them to pick up the up the radio even to call for help when there is a problem. Let the distressed diver take care of that too.

I expect more for my money. Most dives around here are almost $100. I expect professional crews which I will find on the other 2 dive boats in town now and not the Humboldt.

 

[garyw90]

I've seen a lot of toxic comments in here. And a lot of wars going on. It seems like more of the comments are about attacking one another than remembering that one of our community did not make it back. Perhaps these toxic attacks should be taken up in another thread, I had to wade through 22 pages of that stuff, only to find that there was very little direct information here. Then again, after 22 pages, my comments may be lost, because nobody wants to wade through that long of a thread.

Perhaps I can offer some additional direct insight here, aside from the one other member here who was on the boat at the time of the accident.

I was on the Humboldt Saturday morning diving the Yukon. When I checked in, my C-Card was checked, but no requests for a log book (although I do have one and make a copy of my log book entries into my desktop computer).

Anita was the captain, and I think her crew was Anne. The boat was charted by Sport Chalet for the morning session, and most of the divers on the boat were taking wreck diving classes.

The visibility was about 30 feet, and there was no problem with current. I actually only saw 58 degrees on my computer, up at the wheelhouse.

After we came up from our dive, Anne filled our tanks (we brought our own). Although she was trying to be helpful, she did make the mistake of trying to connect my first stage onto my tank valve while my mask and gloves were still hooked around the valve.

Before we left the site, there WAS a roll call, although it was the Sport Chalet representative that performed the roll call. Before the dive, they also asked if anybody needed a buddy, and one diver did and was hooked up.

What I can also add, is that while each diver seat on the boat had a number for the tank position, there was no accounting for those positions. In other words, on one of my favorite boats on SoCal, the Magician, every diver has an assigned tank number, and you call out your number as you go in the water, and call out your number as you board, AND they do a roll call after ever diver has come up. The Humboldt crew did none of the tank number accounting that morning, for better or worse.

I might also add that the instructor for the wreck diving class that I was in says he has over 400 dives on the Yukon, and he has an absolute rule about the rule of thirds - 1/3 air for descent and diving, 1/3 for returning, and 1/3 for reserve.

Do I find it scary that the boat left without accounting for all of the divers? Absolutely! I've been thinking about it the last two days! Especially since I am going to Belize in a few weeks, and have concerns over whether the dive operators down there do close accounting of divers in the water.

Perhaps we as a community should enlist our lawmakers to ensure that there are standards in the US, and even abroad, for accounting for divers on a charter boat. I am not a fan of more regulation, but this seems like such a small thing to ask of dive charter operators, and at no cost to taxpayers.

I agree that if he was OOA, it is unlikely he could have been rescued even if the boat had stayed on site, given the size of the Yukon (366 feet) and the visibility (30 ft).

It is a sad thing that one of our community passed away while doing something he loved. Let's pay some respects to this poor individual's family.

 

[tracydr]

You clearly have some issues with adults making informed decisions about their own safety. I'm sure the world would be a better place if you were in charge. You could take away our sharp scissors and fatty foods, and butterflies would spring forth from toilets everywhere, but you're not in charge, we're all adults here, and nobody needs you telling them that buddies are compulsory for scuba diving.

And you probably carry a loaded gun, too? Oooh, better stay away fro CA you bad man!