Yukon tangent thread

[mdb]

I've been diving 1200+ dives solo. There have been a few moments in current, boat ops, etc, nothing really major. Buddy diving, on the other hand, has had a number of times where the "buddy' was a distinct liability-imminent danger-ripping the primary reg out of my mouth in a wide eyed panic, climbing on top of my head on the way to "safety" and other events. We all survived, one way or the other.

I prefer the solo mentality. I still do the same ocean same day dives, however; in the end, we are all solo every time we dive. Some just do not think so.

 

[Thalassamania]

Where do you find such buddies? I've had a few incidents where I've had to assist a buddy, all well controlled and by the numbers.

 

[mikemill]

It seems that in this thread I we have to use analogies in order to try and get a point across. Would a rental car company rent a car to someone without a license? No there is liability. If that person lies and says they have a license but wrecks and kills someone be sure that the company that provided them with a vehicle would get sued. What will not hold up in court is oh the person told me they were certified, or they seemed familiar with scuba gear so they must be certified and therefore I let them dive. In fact the crew helped them into their gear and into the water. That almost sounds like assisted suicide. But I am not a lawyer either.

Well operating a vehicle requires one to have a valid license issued by the government. Failure to have a license is a violation of the law. A rental car company is very likely required by law to check the licenses of those wishing to rent a vehicle. A better analogy would be some companies verifying that the license is valid (i.e. hasn't be rescinded). Scuba has (thankfully) no governmental organization issuing certs. Boats don't have a legal requirement to check. So as a matter of liability (as Thal has mentioned) it is better for the boats to not check.

As for you skydiving analogy: How many recreational skydivers have 100% of their own equipment? It isn't uncommon here for scuba divers to show up on a boat with every piece of gear they need to make the dive. As such the boat is just providing transportation to the site.

I'm not arguing against checking cert cards. If a boat does that I'd show them my card without even thinking about it. But I don't see any problem with not checking them also.

edit: snipped irrelevant and potentially derailing part.

 

[boulderjohn]

Where do you find such buddies? I've had a few incidents where I've had to assist a buddy, all well controlled and by the numbers.

I agree. Because my wife does not dive, I have had an uncountable number of insta-buddies over the years. I have never had one come close to going out of air or doing anything other than routine. I have had quite a few not pay enough attention to our supposed roles as buddies, IMO, but I have never had anything remotely close to what you describe, and if anyone I know has had such an experience, they haven't mentioned it.

 

[N2DeepInAz]

I would be over my head cause I wouldn't want to deal with these types of morons on the boat. This type of cert check would be a good indicator that safety is not a top priority and bound to go down hill from there.

Last month when I was out with these guys, Anita checked my cert card at the shop when I went to check in. Once on the boat and filling out more waiver forms, Ryan checked my c-card yet again. So I can't believe they aren't checking certifications. Ryan repeatedly tells everyone at each site to dive within your certification and personal limits.

That tells me I better not do anything stupid. Of course, I'm not a maverick diver either. I watched as several people bailed out on the first dive at the Yukon that morning due to their perception of bad conditions or conditions exceeding their skill level. I did a great 40 minute dive on the forward guns and came back up with 1500 psi.

To me, that's a smart diver, know your limits.

 

[rongoodman]

The same reason your card is supposed to get checked when you buy dive gear...

That's a new one. Where is this happening?

 

[Jax]

The same reason your card is supposed to get checked when you buy dive gear and get air fills.

:spit: Are you freaking serious?!?!?!?!

 

[ScubaSteve]

The same reason your card is supposed to get checked when you buy dive gear.....

I missed this statement. I ask......seriously?

....and get air fills.

This part I support all the way.

 

[Adobo]

I've been diving 1200+ dives solo. There have been a few moments in current, boat ops, etc, nothing really major. Buddy diving, on the other hand, has had a number of times where the "buddy' was a distinct liability-imminent danger-ripping the primary reg out of my mouth in a wide eyed panic, climbing on top of my head on the way to "safety" and other events. We all survived, one way or the other.

I prefer the solo mentality. I still do the same ocean same day dives, however; in the end, we are all solo every time we dive. Some just do not think so.

Whenever I read these types of statements, I can't help but think that the person's bad buddy experiences are largely self inflicted. And these self inflicted bad experiences lead one to flawed conclusions.

If we were to draw an analogy to cars... lets say that you only ever bought and drove ill maintained and poorly treated used cars. You might walk away with the impression that all cars suck. You might say that you prefer to walk or ride a bicycle since you have never had any times where walking or your bicycle almost led you to disaster (brakes failing, car breaking down far from civilization, etc.)

On the other hand, some people choose to drive only well maintained and cared for cars. Regular oil changes and so on.

Another scubaboard member has a signature line that states, "If you have a bad dive buddy, it's not your buddy's fault." Those words are very true.

 

[D_B]

I just don't understand the blame leveled at the boat "allowing" solo diving ... that's kinda like saying that it's their fault when a boat goes to the Yukon and someone decides to go inside without any business being there ... ether your an adult who understands the risks of what your doing and are allowed to pursue them as an adult , or you all just can not be counted on to dive without someone to to take care of you like they do in other parts of the world

Also .. another boat was there at the site and would most likely have seen anyone surfacing in distress