Your favorite certification agency ...

[ScubaInChicago]

I like PADI, their classes are easy enough for the masses to obtain a certification card to go explore the underwater world. I will caution that it is just a learners permit like most any other agency offers. It's is up to the individual to seek out the education they want to obtain from there.

If you like easy, there are agencies and instructors who teach within those agencies that are happy to assist with that new certification card. If you like a challenge, there area agencies that expect very high standards in order to pass. There are also instructors who raise the bar on standards and demand mastery before they will put their name on a card. Bottom line, do your research, ask around, interview instructors, and why not leave a report or two of your class on SB or some other searchable online forum to help the next person make an informed decision???

 

[Storker]

The comparision is only valid if the diver is completing the same course offer by different agency.

Although I'm not going back to take a CMAS* cert, I'm seriously considering to take a CMAS** course on top of my PADI AOW. So...

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Um, that'd be with another instructor than the guy teaching my AOW course. And the instructor for the CMAS** course is the main reason I'm considering it. Eh, wait one:

The comparision is only valid if the diver is completing the same course given by the same instructor and offer by different agency.

FTFY.

 

[TMHeimer]

I have multiple certifications from each of UTD, TDI, PADI, PSAI, and NSS-CDS. I have had non-certification training and considerable experience with SSI. I say with complete conviction that you cannot judge an agency by any personal experience. For example, my PSAI experiences were all with the same excellent instructor--can I really judge the entire agency from those experiences? My one NSS-CDS instructor is also an instructor for PADI, TDI, and I don't know how many other agencies. Which agency do I judge from my experience with him? Which of the agencies I have trained with does a student judge from an experience with me?

What I really like is hearing people who not only judge entire agencies from one experience, they judge entire agencies with no personal experience, only what they read about them on the Internet. My experiences have at times been completely the opposite of what I so often read in these thread.


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Agree. You'd have to have enough personal experience and knowledge about an agency to have a viable opinion. Not much choice for personal experience where I live, which I imagine is pretty common. I'm not taking a trip to a hot spot for scuba shops to take other agency's courses. I have gotten involved with the PADI vs. NAUI MSD thing a lot, but it's only from what I've read about NAUI-- just talk on my part.

 

[Akimbo]

This conversation got me curious to know what Navy training schedules are like now. I received this response today.

US Navy Training Schedule:
Scuba, 25 training days
Second Class Diver, 89 training days
First Class Diver, 65 training days​

It is important to note that the Scuba class includes time for physical training and lots of other stuff that recreational divers have no need to learn. A training day is +/- 8 hours.

Second Class Diver and above are now primary ratings, meaning it is the sailor's primary job from the beginning. Diving was a secondary rating through most of the Navy's history, which really compromised careers since they would not be working in the field that they were originally trained for or promotions were based on.

Don't get me wrong, I would never promote duplicating Navy Scuba training in recreational diving. I do believe that the breadth of training in physics and physiology, increasing time in the water, and greater elapsed time for the class would be of great value. It takes time and a little experience for all this to sink in.

 

[fjpatrum]

So far I've done PADI and TDI. They were both acceptable for my needs. I found the PADI materials to be more polished but the TDI materials were acceptable and they took feedback from me and left me with the impression that feedback might actually help to improve the materials. (Test answers that didn't match the course material etc etc) I would use either again.

To answer the question of "favorite"--- whichever one the instructor I want to learn from uses. I don't care who gives me the card as long as I get the education.

 

[boulderjohn]

This conversation got me curious to know what Navy training schedules are like now. I received this response today.

I assume this is in reference to the incident I reported. I was unable to find the full review (many, many pages of details) that I had read earlier. I found this shorter summary: Deadly Coast Guard Dive: What Went Wrong - Popular Mechanics

My memory of the number of dives the woman leading the dive had had prior to the fatal dive may not be perfect; I remember being shocked at how few dives she had, and I don't think I was far off.

Here are a couple of quotes from the full article linked above:

Lt. Jessica Hill, 31, of St. Augustine, Fla., and Boatswain's Mate Second Class Steven Duque, 22, of Miami, decided to make an impromptu training dive near the bow of the 420-ft. ship. Both were Navy trained, and considered seasoned divers. However, this would be their first cold-water descent using scuba gear. As the ship's diving officer, Hill was charged with supervising the dive plan and all per­sonnel involved. This included a third diver, who briefly floated in the 29 F water before climbing out, shivering inside a leaky suit. [My memory of 3 divers was correct, but I did not remember that one had lived.]

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The real culprit, however, was inexperience. "Hill and Duque simply didn't have enough dives under their belt," Wisniewski says​

I see a curious contrast between the descriptions of their total amount of experience, which is not identified in precise terms in this article. (The full article I could not find had precise numbers, which, as I said, struck me as surprisingly few.)

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

This conversation got me curious to know what Navy training schedules are like now. I received this response today.

Scuba​	25 training days​
Second Class Diver​	89 training days​
First Class Diver​	65 training days

It is important to note that the Scuba class includes time for physical training and lots of other stuff that recreational divers have no need to learn. A training day is +/- 8 hours.

Second Class Diver and above are now primary ratings, meaning it is the sailor’s primary job from the beginning. Diving was a secondary rating through most of the Navy’s history, which really compromised careers since they would not be working in the field that they were originally trained for or promotions were based on.

Don’t get me wrong, I would never promote duplicating Navy Scuba training in recreational diving. I do believe that the breath of training in physics and physiology, increasing time in the water, and greater elapsed time for the class would be of great value. It takes time and a little experience for all this to sink in.

And let's not forget that in the Navy, the government pays for your training and equipment. It'd be interesting to know what all that costs. Betchya it's a lot more than a recreational diver could afford ...

... apples and orangutans ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Akimbo]

…I see a curious contrast between the descriptions of their total amount of experience, which is not identified in precise terms in this article…

There appears to be tons of other Scuba ratings now:

Naval Diving and Salvage Training Center

I see specific ratings for all the services except the USCG. They even have an International Diver Course. The first female wasn’t allowed into diving school until several years after my class. The accident you describe was 2009, after the USCG came under Homeland Security, so I have no idea what their training was like.

One thing for sure, none of the grads in my class would have survived that dive. That was when a drysuit had a Mark V hat bolted to it and the standard issue wetsuits fit about like the Mark V suits.

This paragraph from the article is telling:

Capt. Douglas Wisniewski, who oversees Coast Guard diving operations, spent months analyzing what happened that day. Mistakes had been made at every level of command. The Coast Guard hadn't checked the scuba equipment in the Healy's dive locker in five years, nor had it posted a more experienced dive master on board to oversee operations and properly train the dive personnel. (Hill had only 24 dives in her career.) Capt. Russell should never have authorized a dive during a party and without a standby diver. He also should have checked Hill's dive plan with the Coast Guard Diving Manual, as procedure required. Finally, Hill's dive plan did not include adequate safety procedures, or sufficient training for the support team.

Seriously! Why have a Scuba diver in a drysuit, supported by a large ship, and tethered by a rope when they could be surface supplied and in hot water suits??? Perhaps a bigger question is what useful tasks do they expect a Scuba diver to accomplish… clear a 12' diameter prop? Hard to imagine what purpose there is for a Scuba (versus surface supplied) diver on an ice breaker.

By recreational standards, 24 dives is a lot. 3-4 weeks of training 8 hours a day is a lot. The amazing part is how they could even get in the water with all that bureaucracy.

Unfortunately this article sounds more like covering their tails than a useful investigation. I really have no idea what diving is like in the Coast Guard. One thing for sure, the Naval Diving and Salvage Training Center is in Panama City, Florida isn’t the best place to get ice diving experience.

---------- Post added December 19th, 2013 at 10:39 AM ----------

... It'd be interesting to know what all that costs. Betchya it's a lot more than a recreational diver could afford ...

... apples and orangutans ...

You missed the point:

…Don’t get me wrong, I would never promote duplicating Navy Scuba training in recreational diving. I do believe that the breadth of training in physics and physiology, increasing time in the water, and greater elapsed time for the class would be of great value. It takes time and a little experience for all this to sink in.

 

[Peter Guy]

Back to the OP's question -- What is my "favorite agency for certification?"

I have cards issued by: Washington State University (no "agency" affiliation); PADI; NAUI; TDI; DSAT; NAUI Tech; (both DSAT and NAUI Tech may, or may not, be separate agencies from their masters but they do identify themselves as different). I think that is all. (BTW, several of my NAUI Tech cards would now be UTD cards so maybe I should add that.)

And, of course, I'm a PADI Instructor and have been asked if I wanted to become both a UTD and NAUI instructor (as well as another 3 letter agency which I won't ID due to prior posts and I'm not sure how serious the person was).

So, why do I stay with, and like, PADI as a certification agency?

a. Over all, I like its WRITTEN course standards.

b. Over all, I like how it has broken up the various courses to make them feasible for most people to learn enough to have a safe, enjoyable, diving experience consistent with their level of training.

c. Over all, I like the published materials, written and video and find them better than the materials from most of the other agencies from which I have taken classes.

d. I like the fairly seamless course structure -- especially at the OW level -- that lets a person do their training in ways that fit the individual. For example, doing the "book work" either online, at home or in a classroom setting; doing the confined water (pool) work in one place with one instructor and then the OW dives easily in another place with another instructor. Unlike some agencies (and here I'll highlight NAUI for example) the student knows exactly what she has to do to get her card as opposed to the (supposed benefit) of having each instructor set his own criterion. And while the standards aren't published, like GUE's are, once the student gets the materials, she knows what is required and what is required by me is what is required by the instructor in Koh Tao.

e. While I wish the evaluation criterion for PADI skills was more well defined and standardized (although I'm also not sure how that would be done) with well intentioned instructors, the final result can be pretty good.

 

[SanDiegoSidemount]

d. I like the fairly seamless course structure -- especially at the OW level -- that lets a person do their training in ways that fit the individual. For example, doing the "book work" either online, at home or in a classroom setting; doing the confined water (pool) work in one place with one instructor and then the OW dives easily in another place with another instructor...

...once the student gets the materials, she knows what is required and what is required by me is what is required by the instructor in Koh Tao.

Hm, I actually feel the opposite about this. It just doesn't seem like good educational practice to switch instructors (or countries!) for each portion of a diver's initial training. I feel strongly about continuity when teaching foundational skills, and that's hard to reinforce when the deck keeps getting shuffled.

I'm sure customers appreciate the flexibility, but you also like that as an instructor? I think it would drive me nuts to work in a "piecemeal" way like this. Admittedly, when I worked as a dive instructor, I was spoiled. We had 16 weeks with our students, and took them from beginner all the way to what is now called AOW.