Yesterday at Wetherell

[ScubaSarus]

One of my favorite shows ever, Don Knots was great and one of my favorite actors.

 

[SadiesMom]

Damn, you guys - I was just about to tell Dave that I'd take him with me, since I don't mind diving with newbies....

 

[SadiesMom]

I'm glad you're open to discussion - despite the fact that this went off in another direction , I am one who actually enjoys seeing the tropicals and I'm quite disappointed when the collectors have come in and scooped them all up. Is that cruel? No more than nature is cruel for bringing them up here in the first place, I guess. But I had a few comments I wanted to make in response to some of your points.

Your flower analogy might work on another plane, but not this one. First, these fish are tropical. There's no question, they WILL die in a matter of weeks when their metabolisms can no longer adapt to the chilling waters. Are your daises your comparing going to die in a couple weeks?

Second, these are non native and invasive. They need to be removed, even if they are pretty and you want everyone to get a chance to look at them.

Hmm - an interesting point of view. While tropicals are certainly non-native, I would draw the line at calling them "invasive," as the common definition for an invasive species is one which is capable of entering an environmental niche and replacing or damaging the population of the native species which held that niche. The tropicals which travel up to RI on the Gulf Stream have been doing so probably as long as the Gulf Stream has been running (and Cape Cod has been standing in the way) and tropicals cannot maintain year-round populations here - hence they really aren't "invasive" - but merely non-native visiting species which will eventually die off due to changes in water temperature in a relatively short time (as you yourself note). They do not "need to be removed" as they will die off anyway in a much shorter time than it would take to make an impact on our native species.

Instead of collecting for profit, which who cares if it's for profit and judging by your latest response it's not the profit you have a problem with but that others cant enjoy, you're solution is to allow them to stay until they're killed off. OK, selling may be greedy to you, but your way is cruel to me. If I wanted to see a non native species I would either go to a controlled environment which houses them or I would make a trip to go see them in their natural habitat. I would never advocate a zoo bringing me a polar bear every winter that was sure to die come the warm weather just so I can see it once a year.

Nor would I - however, no one is "bringing" the tropicals up here for us to see - it's done as part of a natural process that's been going on for umpteen eons - the Gulf Stream current swinging close to our coast and spinning off warm eddies of water, carrying juvenile tropicals and eggs to our warm coastal embayments. In effect, we *are* making a trip to see them in their "natural habitat" since it's a natural event that brings tropicals to the warm coastlines of RI every year.

Letting them die when the water gets cold isn't any more cruel than "letting" one fish eat another - it's what happens as part of the natural cycle. You can put on a hat that says you're "saving" tropical fish from certain death - which is certainly an argument that can be made - but the reality is that the natural cycle is that they're swept up here, they live for a while and they die when it gets too cold for them. Circle of life and all that.

Do you also advocate leaving the lionfish alone that are invading southern Atlantic and Caribbean waters because otherwise folks might never get to see one in the wild since they are pacific fish and all? What's the difference between them and the tropicals up here?

Now THAT'S an example of an invasive species. Lionfish have established permanent breeding populations as far north as North Carolina to the detriment of native populations of fish (since lionfish are pretty efficient eating machines with no native predators). That's a big difference between the tropicals up here (which have little to no effect on our native populations and are only here for a matter of weeks) and lionfish establishing permanent breeding populations in new areas.

As far as moral ground goes. I'm failing to see how someone removing an invasive species can even be questioned as being the slightest bit immoral! They're non native species! Since when was getting rid of an invasive species a bad thing! Are you going to bat an eye when mile-a-minute vine is eradicated? How about africanized bees? Were you torn up about the snakefish being banned from the states after the damage they were causing because now you'll never be able to see one in a pet store? Imported chestnut trees completely wiped out American chestnut trees. Should the imported ones stay because if not people would have to visit Europe to see one? LOL. I've done many things in my life unfortunately that can be debated on the moral avenue however don't question mine simply because I took a non native fish that was going to die in a matter of weeks. It doesn't begin to compare. Should I instead just ask everyone to kindly let me know when they are done looking so that I can dive after? LOL you want non native species to stay put so you can see them in the wild(where they will then die). Ummmm, would that be.....greedy? "Hello kettle, did you know you're black"? Perhaps selfish is a better description? LOL, yeah ok, I'M the greedy one.

You can argue "moral ground" all you want, but you've defeated your own argument about "invasive species" with your own statement about them dying off in a few weeks anyway. Tropicals in RI are in no way analogous to any of the examples of invasive species you've given. While I congratulate you on your desire to reduce/eliminate invasives, your effort will be much better put towards getting rid of Chinese mitten crabs, Ascidians sea squirts, European green crabs, and red algae - all of which are marine invasive species of concern according to the RI DEM Invasive Species Management Plan. Of course, none of them look as nice in an aquarium and I'm not aware of anyone paying big bucks for invasive sea squirts ('cause they're *really* gross looking)....

So let's just be honest with each other, OK? You like collecting tropical fish (it really has nothing to do with protecting our coastline from invasive species!). And it's cool for you that you can do it for free here in RI a couple of months a year.

I, on the other hand, like seeing tropicals in RI waters. Personally, I'd prefer it if you collectors could wait until....let's say September or so to start collecting so those of us who like to see them could do so. But I'm realistic enough to know that's not going to happen....

And so I'll stick to not mentioning where I spot the tropicals I see.

Sadiesmom

P.S. - and if you decide you really want to save the RI coastline from invasive species, here's the link to the plan....http://www.crmc.ri.gov/projects/projectfiles/RIAIS_Plan.pdf