Yes/No requirement for Med form

[The Chairman]

Pete, how many other conditions do you play doctor with?

I resent you suggesting that I'm "playing doctor". You are subverting my point like we're two politicians slugging it out over voters. I don't diagnose diseases or prescribe any treatments so I'm not playing doctor. Please, let's keep this civil.

I am not required to teach everyone that asks me. I choose not to teach those who can't be entirely upfront with me. I can call a class at any time, for any reason and that's what I will choose to do for any mystery illness or condition. You can expose yourself to such liability and be as willfully ignorant as you want. That's certainly your right, but it can't be expected of everyone. I certainly won't willingly put myself or my student in such a situation.

This is exactly why a good friend of mine no longer will turn in the form with a "yes" and a doctors signature, he simply puts "no" down on every question.

As for those who choose to lie on their releases: please find another instructor. I don't want you as a student if I can't trust you, or you me.

 

[Wookie]

The medical release form is not to protect the instructor or the student, although a good student and instructor will be educated in the process, the form is to protect the training agency. Everything we do from carrying insurance to filling out myriads of paperwork is to protect the agency. I would never answer yes, as I take responsibility for myself in the water. But I'd rather not lie to Pete, so I won't be taking a class from him.

I have no issues lying to Pete's agency.

 

[The Chairman]

But I'd rather not lie to Pete, so I won't be taking a class from him.

We both try to operate from a position of knowledge and trust. I have ankle issues. No, nothing is asked on any form, but I make sure that every boat I'm on knows that I might need help from time to time. If they are unwilling or unable to help, I want to know that before I splash. Yes, I've not gotten on a boat because of the response I've gotten.

The medical release form is not to protect the instructor or the student, although a good student and instructor will be educated in the process, the form is to protect the training agency.

Back to this for a moment. It's my opinion that the best way to handle an accident is to prevent it in the first place. I can't prevent what I don't know about. Am I overly cautious? I've never had a student accident in my 17+ years of teaching... not even a blown eardrum.

 

[Schwob]

The medical release form is not to protect the instructor or the student, although a good student and instructor will be educated in the process, the form is to protect the training agency. Everything we do from carrying insurance to filling out myriads of paperwork is to protect the agency. I would never answer yes, as I take responsibility for myself in the water. But I'd rather not lie to Pete, so I won't be taking a class from him.

I have no issues lying to Pete's agency.

Phunnnny!
....
So far I am lucky to still get to truthfully answer no to all those questions.
Interesting thread & frustratingly interesting legal space we live in....

 

[tridacna]

I resent you suggesting that I'm "playing doctor". You are subverting my point like we're two politicians slugging it out over voters. I don't diagnose diseases or prescribe any treatments so I'm not playing doctor. Please, let's keep this civil.

I apologize if you perceive my comments as uncivil. They are not meant to be.

I'm trying to establish what YOUR rules are for accepting/rejecting a student on a medical basis.

You used Type 1 diabetes as an example. (The student answered YES to that question and has a doctor's permission to dive).

How do you check the veracity of the doctor's opinion? Do you check the student's HBA1C numbers? Ask them about their recent medical history? Ask them to test their glucose before getting into the water? What is it that you do that makes you feel more comfortable about providing safe training? What questions are off limit? If a student fails to answer those for privacy reasons, will you reject them? And how do you protect that information? I am genuinely curious as to what your standards are in that regard.

 

[The Chairman]

You used Type 1 diabetes as an example. (The student answered YES to that question and has a doctor's permission to dive).

Has anyone had a doctor give an OK for this? I haven't and there's no way I would trust a doctor who gave such an OK. I'm not going to teach an insulin dependent individual. I would advise them to find another hobby.

I've had students show up with colds. I'm no doctor, but I'm not going to take a sneezy wheezy individual into a pool where their ears can be injured. I don't care if a doctor gave them an OK or not. I don't need to deal with the potential injury and resultant liability in the pool. It's my decision to continue as their instructor or not. If I don't know how to keep them safe, then I have no business taking them into the water. If I'm not completely comfortable, then I'm not going to try and "wing it".Diving is optional. Safety is not.

If a student fails to answer those for privacy reasons, will you reject them?

Yes. Yes, I would. I'll gladly send them to you. Being my student is not a right afforded to anyone with a credit card. It's a dubious honor at best, but it's nonetheless at my discretion. Here are some reasons I've rejected some students:

• Pregnant
• Couldn't Swim
• Insulin dependent diabetes
• Hurt Achilles
• Under 14
• Hacking smoker
• Racist remarks
• Sexist remarks
• Couldn't read
• Big ego
• Lying

I firmly believe that I'm not the right instructor for many, many people. I'm way OK with that and would rather sever the relationship before we splash. If you noticed, many of those reasons have nothing to do with health.

 

[tridacna]

Has anyone had a doctor give an OK for this? .

Actually DAN now says that it's OK. Obviously if well controlled. IDDM is no longer a absolute contraindication to diving. But your biz - your rules.

 

[Wookie]

Has anyone had a doctor give an OK for this? I haven't and there's no way I would trust a doctor who gave such an OK. I'm not going to teach an insulin dependent individual. I would advise them to find another hobby.

Yes, that and Asthma. And I've seen a large number of divers taking their afternoon insulin shots. And throwing their syringes in the regular trash.

We eventually had to make a sharps container.

 

[The Chairman]

But your biz - your rules.

Yeah, I see diabetes being loosened up a tad, but I haven't seen an agency get on board with it. Usually, it's a no-go with them.

 

[tridacna]

Yeah, I see diabetes being loosened up a tad, but I haven't seen an agency get on board with it. Usually, it's a no-go with them.

And yes. We’ve seen many doctor’s approvals for well-controlled diabetes. Never had an issue. Yet.