XS Scuba manifolds with engravings vs HOG manifolds without.

[BugHunterNY]

I was worried about the max 40% o2 engraving as well. It came on a Worthington AL40 I bought last year. Not one shop has yet given me a problem with putting 80% in it...


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[Jim Lapenta]

The HOG valves come with no engraving or stamping on them as to O2 suitability. The ones coming in now have viton o rings. The first batch did not. That said if you are going to be putting pure O2 through them I would not take any chances. Whether they say O2 clean or not I personally still O2 clean them myself before installing them on a bottle. There is too much that could happen with any valve between the time it leaves the factory and the time you receive it. This is why I think the abbreviated nitrox classes are full of crap and don't spend enough time on this stuff. They are also why shops can lie to you about what is "allowed" by law. As for turns to open it's been a couple years since I sold a manifold and though they are on my price list, I'd need to see if they even have any in stock. Honest answer is I can't tell you how many turns on them. The valves that I do sell a number of for sidemount use I can check later today. Off hand I'd say it's closer to 3 or 4. But don't take that as the final word til I look at one I have on hand.

 

[fire_diver]

Would this bother you?

Absolutely it would bother me! I would never buy any valve with such nonsense permanently engraved in it.

I'm glad you posted this thread, I'm about to go pickup a new pro-valve so I will make sure it's not marked like this before parting with my cash.

 

[c itchy]

The Hog 200 Bar manifold I bought last year takes 3 turns to open/close. Its the only manifold I have ever tried so I can't really offer a good comparison but I can say it looks and feels solid and I love the rubber handles.

You might find a shop who would be willing to clean them and follow common sense versus the manufacture's recommendations, but then your tied to one shop.

 

[Scubadude_LA]

Crap! I just got in two XS AL40s with the Air Only on the vavles and four LP85s, all with the damn Air Only on the valves.
How often do you think I'm gonna be putting air only in AL40s?
This sucks.
I think there is going to be a nice brass stripe on each valve soon. But now I guess I have to check on the guts of the valve for O2, compatibility.
Also, the Thermos on XS site have the markings to. Not sure if it's an XS thing or all Thermos have it.
WTF?
Maybe I'm over reacting, but even it the valve is rebuilt with compatible parts, the stupid stamp is there fueling debate when getting fills.

Edit: I'm pissed!!

 

[kr2y5]

 

[Scared Silly]

Well that is interesting that XS Scuba is etching the usage on the valves. That is something very new. Thermo have always been nice valves though expensive compared to others.

FWIW - one can clean a scuba valve until it is clean, sterile, etc and it will still not be technically for 100% O2 service. That is because of the valve design and the materials used. The valve is not a straight pass through design* and the seats are nylon rather than a fluoroelastomer.

*Geek alert - if one looks a scuba valve the gas comes up from the dip tube makes a 90 degree bend to the left, hits the valve seat make an almost 180 degree bend, makes another 90 degree bend to the top of the outlet then makes another 90 degree bend to come out. So nearly 450 degrees worth of bends. Every bend causes heating - not good for O2. With an O2 valve the gas comes up, hits the seat bends 90 degrees and exits. So a total of 90 degrees. Far less heating potential. This is why a scuba valve as currently designed with never truly be 100% O2 compatible.

I was just recently searching for a manifold and was looking at these. Their ads seemed contradictory, so I inquired with an email. Someone actually called me and he was great on the phone, Mark I believe. I really wanted to buy from him, but had to pass because their HP, DIN manifold is air only. He explained that in order to be O2 clean by CGA regulations an HP manifold would have to be tested with 4,500 PSI pure O2, which he felt isn't possible. So he assured me they are O2 clean, but can't be advertised that way. They want it both ways, buy it because it's O2 clean, but if there's a problem - hey it says in writing right here "Air Only." I won't buy from people that play games like that so I passed and bought elsewhere. However, I did not know they came with Air Only stamped on them. I would have a HUGE problem with that and I would send them back. I would think there would be more liability in stamping them Air Only and then telling everyone verbally that they're O2 clean.

I have always found this difference odd - the only difference between a 200 bar and 300 bar valve is the number of threads 5 vs 7. It has zero to do with the service pressure. Though I guess it must be because the regulator attached can be 300 bar service. So perhaps in a convoluted way it makes some sense.


Back to the OP - I would just find a old stock Thermo is that what you want. PS I have a new cross over I would sell for a good price. It came from an O2 clean manifold that I put a short cross over one for some baby doubles.

 

[akdeepdiver]

First I will state that I am neither a Lawyer nor did I stay at a holiday inn express last night. For an in-depth legal analysis, I will punt to Dr. Lector since I know he is one, and I trust his opinion. From what I have found out, that statement on the valve is pretty much a CYA statement to cover the manufacturer. As stated previously, scuba valves are not designed for O2 service due to the air flow, materials used, and the fact that the threaded portion of the valve is chrome plated (on the majority of scuba valves I have seen). If an individual puts 100% o2 in a cylinder and it results in a fire, then the manufacturer can state that individuals have been alerted that the valves are not designed for that service. I am guessing that the manufactures in house legal counsel had a good deal to do with this.

 

[Scubadude_LA]

The two previous posts are good. I totally get the fact that scuba valves are not O2 safe by design, we have all known that for some time. Hence, SLOOOOWWWWWW valve actions and flow rates when boosting or PP blending with over 40%, use viton, clean and lube with Christo, clean often, top only with synthetic lubed compressors period...

So now I guess the eternal debate of 100% vs 80% will be laid to rest. We can now debate 40% vs 36%
This ranks right up there with the Industrial vs Aviator vs Medical O2 stupidity.
Did I mentioned I was pissed?

 

[kr2y5]

Thanks for all the replies!

Aside from the CYA disclaimers given by manufacturers, do you think there might be any practical difference between the valves currently on the market with respect to safety, when used with 100% O2?

I'm just reading through Vance Harlow's Oxygen Hacker's Companion, and it states that "Many techs recommend against using Thermo valves with 100% because they are very fast opening". That was written in 2009, five years ago. Has anything changed?

I also hear (from other sources) that Thermo are still the valve of choice, and/or that all valves are, in reality, basically identical, because they ultimately all come from the same factory. There are plenty of conflicting opinions out there...

I do realize that, as already pointed out above, no scuba valve is technically O2 compatible due to sharp turns, nylon seats, fast opening, etc., and I just wonder if there is any meaningful difference between what is on the market.

I'm mostly wondering here about a valve to use on the 100% O2 deco tank (AL40). I have here an "old stock" thermo currently dedicated for that purpose. The O2 Hacker's companion points out that small tanks are especially tricky to handle, because they provide less of a cushion, and I'm going to be taking the risk every time I turn the valve, not just during a gas fill...

Thoughts?