bracko
Contributor
I have been lead to believe that the first OCEAN dive must be conducted by an instructor.
true?
true?
WOW big changes to PADI DM for July 2011
- Thread starter Divemastersintraining
- Start date
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"Dillo," thanks for that. I misunderstood part of what you wrote and you misunderstood part of what I wrote.
When you wrote
Because not all of the new materials are available here yet, I'm still doing DMs according to the old rules and have only recently downloaded and scanned through the new stuff. In re-reading the new material specifically to see what it says about DSD Leader training, I see that I did jump to a conclusion that the inclusion of the DSD Workshop would lead to the Leader rating when it actually doesn't. It stops one step short of the requirements for the rating since the four required DSDs for the Leader rating are not explicitly incorporated in the Practical Application.
Even so, I do think it's a good idea to provide the workshop since it gives the DMTs some simulated practice before a DSD Leader Internship, should they choose to do one at some point--perhaps when they're actually working in the industry in a situation where there's a big demand for DSDs.
When you wrote
I understood you to mean that no DM is able to conduct a DSD, which is clearly inaccurate. Also, while DSD Leader rating has long been available to DMs as an add-on certification through the DSD Leader Internship, this has not been a required part of the DM course and has had no workshop associated with it. My response was to say that DMs who have done this add-on rating are able to conduct DSDs, so as a result, it is in fact something a DM is able to. However, I didn't say that all DMs can conduct DSDs, which is where you misread what I wrote.
Because not all of the new materials are available here yet, I'm still doing DMs according to the old rules and have only recently downloaded and scanned through the new stuff. In re-reading the new material specifically to see what it says about DSD Leader training, I see that I did jump to a conclusion that the inclusion of the DSD Workshop would lead to the Leader rating when it actually doesn't. It stops one step short of the requirements for the rating since the four required DSDs for the Leader rating are not explicitly incorporated in the Practical Application.
Even so, I do think it's a good idea to provide the workshop since it gives the DMTs some simulated practice before a DSD Leader Internship, should they choose to do one at some point--perhaps when they're actually working in the industry in a situation where there's a big demand for DSDs.
OP
Back on Koh Tao just a week now and having allot of fun with the new changes to the DM course. Dema was fantastic and we “might” have even taken a night off and gone out for a few while in Vages too. We had ample time to sit with Drew, Mike and many others to ask all our questions. Now on our return we’ve been having a blast setting up all the new materials. As for many other places in Asia Pacific we still don’t have all the course materials but we did get a good look through the DM Manual, picked up the new Instructor slates for the DM course and even got a copy of the new exam while doing the Update during DEMA. Over the next few weeks we are all looking forward to testing out all the new ideas we have to make our program even better. We’d love to hear and see what others are doing with these changes to the Divemaster program to not just be a goodprogram but a great program. Over the next few months we’ll try n post regularly what our experiences are with the program and we hope you’ll do the same!
Cheers!
Cheers!
One of the things that should actively discourage people from making DM's for whatever reason without being up to standards is liability. Make someone a DM and they mess up, get sued and loose they going to turn around and sue you for making them a DM and being liable for putting them in a position to mess up.
:mooner:
Are you suggesting that in US jurispurdence that an individual found liable of wrong doing has not successfully sued the the organisation that granted the certification because they were in fact unworthy of that certification? ever?
Has this ever happened? Well I don't think it happens once a week, but then I am an optimist.
And while you think about this not ever happening perhaps you could wonder why your takeout coffee says `Caution Hot`
cheers and thanks for 2cents, sorry no change
Has this ever happened? Well I don't think it happens once a week, but then I am an optimist.
And while you think about this not ever happening perhaps you could wonder why your takeout coffee says `Caution Hot`
cheers and thanks for 2cents, sorry no change
Please cite one instance in history in which a DM has sued the organization that certified him.
Here's the difference between you and I on this one. I know that in the history of scuba, a DM being sued is close to unheard of. I believe there has been one successful case in history. I don't recall the name of the case, but I am sure someone else on SB can supply it. In that case, the DM was so absurdly in the wrong that there was no doubt of the verdict and no way he cold possibly blame anyone but himself.
We have had numerous threads on DM liability on ScubaBoard in which attorneys have explained the law and even done searches of related legal cases. That is why I am very darn confident that you can do whatever search you want and find that not only has no DM ever successfully sued the instructor who certified him, it has never been attempted.
Oh, and by the way, you may want to do a basic web search for the facts in the McDonald's coffee case. You will probably be quite surprised.
If you choose to respond again, try using something other than an icon of someone mooning me and wild speculation for your support. Your audience will find it more persuasive.
Belce -- the "causal chain" that would create liability on the part of an instructor due to actions of a DM independent of the instructor's supervision and control, would be very long and very hard to create. In addition, the reality is that the instructor would probably not have that deep of a pocket so it probably wouldn't be worth the effort.
Now as to adding the AGENCY which provided the DM with a Card, that's a different matter -- that happens all the time.
In thinking about this, the only way I see to actually bring in the DM's instructor is to have the DM proclaim "I'm just doing it the way I was taught" and that the "way he was taught" was dangerous. Then you'd have to prove, that, of course, he was actually taught that way AND that it was dangerous AND that it caused the incident. For example, the instructor tells the DM, let's do a bounce dive on an 80 to 250 feet, it's OK and then the DM takes a client to 250 feet on an 80 that turns out badly. In that case, I could see adding the instructor as a defendant.
Now as to adding the AGENCY which provided the DM with a Card, that's a different matter -- that happens all the time.
In thinking about this, the only way I see to actually bring in the DM's instructor is to have the DM proclaim "I'm just doing it the way I was taught" and that the "way he was taught" was dangerous. Then you'd have to prove, that, of course, he was actually taught that way AND that it was dangerous AND that it caused the incident. For example, the instructor tells the DM, let's do a bounce dive on an 80 to 250 feet, it's OK and then the DM takes a client to 250 feet on an 80 that turns out badly. In that case, I could see adding the instructor as a defendant.
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