WOW big changes to PADI DM for July 2011

[Kingpatzer]

I wonder if they'll do the demonstrations being horizontal and neutrally bouyant OR negative, vertical and on their knees?

You optimist you :cool2:

Though to be fair -- having a reference for grading DM skills is going to be a good thing. I helped staff my first DM class, and frankly the differences between 2, 3, and 4 can be the grounds for a lot of debate for the instructors.

 

[boulderjohn]

I wonder if they'll do the demonstrations being horizontal and neutrally bouyant OR negative, vertical and on their knees?

The changes seem pretty good. I particularly like the inclusion of Demonstration Quality of skills on the video. I have only to get these in shape to finish, and have long suggested at least a list with photos on this would have helped folks like me with not so good memories--The OW manual does a good job showing how to DO the skills.

I am going to spill a couple of beans here, Peter.

One of the reasons that PADI has resisted clear demonstrations of how to do the skills is that there are more ways than one to do the skills, and it is possible to do the skills very differently from the way most people do them and still be within standards.

For example, Peter's description of doing the skills horizontal and neutrally buoyant is perfectly acceptable.

For another example, think of how hovering is normally taught, by having students kneel on the bottom, add air gradually, etc. The standards do not in any way say that anything like that is required. It would be perfectly acceptable in CW 4 to have the students start their descents, stop, and do their hovers before they reach the bottom--the way they would do it in real dives.

As you may have guessed by my cryptic opening remark, Peter and I (and others) have been in contact with PADI about this. I was specifically told, in so many words, that they want to avoid the trap of having people think that the way they were originally taught to do a skill is the only way it is allowed to be done. I was also told, in so many words, that they are now planning to produce videos that show instructors demonstrating skills while neutrally buoyant.

IMO, it is actually too bad that they have produced the new DM materials when they did--they might have been different if they were produced a year later.

 

[TMHeimer]

Boulderjohn, I think you or someone else responded a while ago to my thought on having having the critical attributes described, possibly with pictures-and mentioning teaching method differences. I did not think of a video. I must say I agree with you that there is probably a fair bit of discrepency among instructors' methods of teaching this. Perhaps a better solution would be for the individual shop/instructor to spell it out. I've always read that PADI is known for doing things the exact PADI way, so what they are doing seems in line with that. So I'm not sure which way I think is best, but would like to see something in writing, photo or video from somebody as to an exact way for me in my course to do them.

 

[boulderjohn]

I've always read that PADI is known for doing things the exact PADI way, so what they are doing seems in line with that.

When it comes to specific skills, it is actually the opposite.

Let's take OOA as an example. The standard calls for the student to secure an alternate air source. It does not say how this is to happen. All of the following would be acceptable to PADI:

• Donor hands conventional alternate to OOA diver
• OOA diver takes alternate from donor
• Donor hands primary and switches to AIR II device
• Donor hands long hose primary and switches to alternate bungeed on neck.
  
  
  If this were GUE or UTD, only the last bullet would be acceptable.

 

[boulderjohn]

So I'm not sure which way I think is best, but would like to see something in writing, photo or video from somebody as to an exact way for me in my course to do them.

That's where your instructor comes in. Mine gave me a list of steps for each skill. It was a list that he and some other course directors created.

I don't believe there are more than a couple of skills (like snorkel/regulator exchange) that I still do the way I was taught to do them on that list.

As I said, PADI will accept a variety of ways of doing things, so it can't give you an official way to do it without stating or implying that other perfectly acceptable ways are wrong.

 

[Jim Lapenta]

The most benefical part of my PADI DM course was interning with actual students. Having people play students is kinda lame. I wonder why they are doing this? I know some instructors may only teach a few OW classes and as such don't have the numbers perhaps to warrant a DM. But substituting certified divers does not give the DM candidate real experience. I found that no matter how much you think you have seen there is always that time a real student will pull something that makes you go WTF! Those are the times you really learn things.

Last year I was in that boat of not having enough students to need a DM. This year I could have used a DM easily but did not have the chance to find someone who would have had the time to do all that would be required. I had two people in mind to ask about taking the DM course but both had other obligations. I had one person approach me about a crossover but he was not someone I'd want my students around. DM's need to be selected not solicited because they can afford the cost of the course.

 

[String]

Doing some checking to see whats happened to internship. Roleplay options are a very very poor 2nd to dealing with real students. Also, in lots of places you dont have spare DMTs or staff hanging around with time to play pretend-student but you do have real courses with real students all the time.

As for demo quality, as said its mainly not been done before so as not to get people thinking there is only one way to do a skill. With the exception of Bolt 'n' Pray there is no skill in there that must be done a certain way. Provided the performance requirements are met in a safe sensible manner its correct.
The difference between a 4 and a 5 demo is often very subjective and sometimes meaningless. 4 mainly goes for its slow and it works. 5 is if its REALLY slow with REALLY exaggerated motions. Note nowhere do those say how it must be done just that it must be slow and exaggerated.

You need to be careful now to mould students into clones thinking the way on the video is the only perfect way to do a skill so although its useful to show some aspects its something not to dwell too much on in case they just copy it verbatim.

 

[TMHeimer]

When it comes to specific skills, it is actually the opposite.

Let's take OOA as an example. The standard calls for the student to secure an alternate air source. It does not say how this is to happen. All of the following would be acceptable to PADI:

• Donor hands conventional alternate to OOA diver
• OOA diver takes alternate from donor
• Donor hands primary and switches to AIR II device
• Donor hands long hose primary and switches to alternate bungeed on neck.
  
  
  If this were GUE or UTD, only the last bullet would be acceptable.

Thanks. I'm always learning something. I thought the "correct" way was OOA diver takes the alt. Would you say that the "various possible ways" theme is true of other PADI courses as well, such as Rescue, Specialties? And yeah, I agree that a list of Demo. skills from one's instructor would be a big help, and can see how one could move away from what he was originally taught after being out in the real world a while. I did that as a Band teacher.

 

[boulderjohn]

. Would you say that the "various possible ways" theme is true of other PADI courses as well, such as Rescue, Specialties? .

Not so much in rescue, etc. There is really only one approved way to do CPR, for example, and there is really only one way to set up an O2 bottle. Some of the skills taught are very specific (approach with quick reverse, for example), so there really is only one way to do it. Note that the main difference is that you are learning those skills in the context in which you will actually use them, which is not true of the isolated instruction of skills in a pool.

 

[orlandoscuba]

I hope they don't take away the internship option.

I am just finishing up my DM program (internship option) and I think being involved with actual classes with actual new open water students is much more beneficial to a DMC then role playing with other DMCs.

We have role played with each other for practice but it is nothing like the responsibility you feel when your working with real open water students (under the direct supervision of an instructor of course)

I just finished my DM program, and went along with the internship option. On the way to becoming an instructor I found this option was the best and also gave me more flexibility.

Working with real students helped me be prepared for what will be next and better prepared me for the IDC.

I hope they decided to keep the internship option.