Would you let a near death experience stop you? My encounter

[Walter]

I missed the part where the agency was even mentioned.

No one indicated AOW from any agency includes penetration. I'm assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that penetration was planned because of the gear requirements. That does not put the blame on PADI (was it even a PADI class?), it puts the blame squarely on an instructor pushing to fast and very unwisely. Even if penetration was not planned, this student is not ready to be adding tasks such as laying line, even outside a wreck. Believe me, I'm not shy about putting the blame on an agency if I feel they deserve it. I don't see anything here that points to any agency being at fault.

 

[Tigerman]

I missed the part where the agency was even mentioned.

No one indicated AOW from any agency includes penetration. I'm assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that penetration was planned because of the gear requirements. That does not put the blame on PADI (was it even a PADI class?), it puts the blame squarely on an instructor pushing to fast and very unwisely. Even if penetration was not planned, this student is not ready to be adding tasks such as laying line, even outside a wreck. Believe me, I'm not shy about putting the blame on an agency if I feel they deserve it. I don't see anything here that points to any agency being at fault.

I mentioned PADI specifically as thats the one I have expereience with, nothing more. And besides, if a PADI instructor violate the agency standards, I blame the instructor, not the agency..
And yeah, ive said what i feel about all that equipment in a previous post..

 

[Walter]

if a PADI instructor violate the agency standards, I blame the instructor, not the agency..

As it should be with any agency. It's when the standards are a problem that the blame rests with the agency.

 

[Tigerman]

Indeed.. And im of the distinct impression that its not usually the agencys standards thats the issue in most cases, but the instructor. Most agencies could probably be better on following up on their instructors tho..

 

[Walter]

In this case, I agree. In most cases standards cause the problems.

 

[h90]

I would say it was an excellent instructor, as he theached how fast someone can die, but now show that you learned your lesson and NEVER dive again with that dangerous guy.
Free flow: give the Octopus, start to ascent together, no need to shut down the air, if anything happens you can still get air from the free flowing reg or your octopus.
It is an AOW and not a Tech Extrem free flow in the cave exercise and even than you would shut down 1 tank only and you would exercise it first in the pool and not at deep.
Instructors like him might be the reason why some people prefer solo dives, at least noone shuts down your main air supply.....

Scary story, thanks, definitly helps me, I'll do some training again myself and if I have a freeflow I won't let someone be on my back side.....


Or it was the new Padi Adventure "Dive with the enemy instructor" or the "Evil Buddy Speciality".

 

[Gombessa]

This "instructor" should never be allowed to teach again. He is dangerous!

In this case I have to wonder what the REAL story was. I'm not saying PMP is lying, but he seems like a pretty reasonable guy and I'm sure he'd be ready to agree that he may not have all the facts straight in this situation, especially since he was by all definitions a distressed, panicked diver!

Also, he mentioned that he couldn't find his pony reg but his instructor said it was already in his hand--we already have contradictory accounts of what's happened. I'm sure the instructor has his own perspective of what happened (perhaps he signaled that he was going to turn off the tank and PMP may have "OK"'d it, perhaps he handed PMP his octo before doing so, perhaps he IS just a s****y hack, who knows). But instead of unequivocally laying the smack down on this guy who isn't even around to defend himself, maybe we should reserve some of our wrath in the (imho exteremely likely) situation that we don't know the whole story here?

 

[TSandM]

I doubt any wreck penetration was in the cards -- The "wreck" dive would be an external survey dive. I've never understood why you need a specialty course to swim around the outside of a wreck, something I've done any number of times without any particular training to do it, but maybe there's something about understanding the layout of a wreck, or maybe you get introduced to anchor lines and granny lines.

I certainly agree that somebody with 25 dives isn't ready to run a reel. Heck, my SAC rate more than DOUBLES when you put a reel in my hands, and my situational awareness goes to pot, to boot.

Although I wouldn't go so far as to call this the "evil buddy" specialty course, I do think the instructor's judgment and procedures are open to question.

 

[Walter]

In this case I have to wonder what the REAL story was. I'm not saying PMP is lying, but he seems like a pretty reasonable guy and I'm sure he'd be ready to agree that he may not have all the facts straight in this situation, especially since he was by all definitions a distressed, panicked diver!

Also, he mentioned that he couldn't find his pony reg but his instructor said it was already in his hand--we already have contradictory accounts of what's happened. I'm sure the instructor has his own perspective of what happened (perhaps he signaled that he was going to turn off the tank and PMP may have "OK"'d it, perhaps he handed PMP his octo before doing so, perhaps he IS just a s****y hack, who knows). But instead of unequivocally laying the smack down on this guy who isn't even around to defend himself, maybe we should reserve some of our wrath in the (imho exteremely likely) situation that we don't know the whole story here?

Of course there's another side to the story, but:

1. he caused a student to panic.
2. he lost control of that panicked diver.
3. he had the student geared up to make dives (laying line) for which the diver was clearly not ready.
4. this instructor has poor judgement and should not be allowed near students.

 

[PM-Performance]

I will say he deff did not signal me to shut off my air. I had my safe second in my mouth way before he even tried to do anything. To hold it in my hand and see if it was still free flowing.
I should have known he was going behind me to shut it off, but it didnt trigger, because he didn't really signal me. Or atleast I didnt see it. I wasnt freaked out until I got no air.

This was an SSI course. Wether it was in the course or not for wreck diving, we did penetrate this little boat with numerous holes in it in a quarry we have dove quite a few times. That wasnt the issue though. The issue happened on a seperate date and quary. I can tell you I have penetrated some things in this quary many of times, just with no reel. These are set in the quarys just for that and plenty of openings and holes.
Anyway that doesnt matter. Like I said, I assume as part of the course we were carrying this gear. In the book, it specifically said you should carry spare air and a reel. I dont care soo much about that part of it.

POint is, I didnt have air and went to the top because I couldnt find the air sources in a panic. We were in the water for maybe 5 mins. We were on our decent when this happened.

Not sure what other info you guys would like