Would you expect compensation from a live-aboard operator if

[BTravlin]

I thought about posting the whole e-mail but because I named some of the other sick divers I thought better of it. For now, suffice it to say it was an explination of the events almost exactly as they were posted here.

You know it's interesting to me how people reacted to my excerpt. I just read it, yet again, and while I was delibertly direct and to the point I still don't find it heavy handed, rude or uncompromizing. If I did I wouldn't have posted it.

I said "I propose we use" the following method for calculating a refund and "Please advise how you would like to handle this transaction?" The operative word being "you."

The complexion EV put on it isn't a big surprise.

You could of course remove the names to protect the innocent.

There is another thread going right now where it has been said, basically, that it doesn't really matter what you said, it's what the recipient thinks you said.

I'm not saying one party is right and one party is wrong, I'm just saying the truth is almost always somewhere on a sliding scale between two points. It's vitally important when two sides are communicating, especially when in writing, to make sure your message is very clear and that your tone is suited to the purpose. You have to write with your audience in mind and from the excerpt shown I think you could have done better. I'll also say that EV's response here in this thread could have been written better as well.

 

[seaducer]

This is a slippery slope we tread. The next time I take a flight someplace and there's that person on the plane that sounds like they have TB, sitting right behind me coughing up a lung, can I ask for my money back on the flight if I get sick three days after I get home? .

Apples and oranges me thinks. I don't think anybody is suggesting that a refund be given because they got sick. What is at issue is that the dive op is somewhat at fault for the passengers missing a significant amount of activity they paid for.

In your analogy you have a passenger, outside of airline control. In this case it was a crew member, well within the dive op's control.

In your analogy you can still fly, you got what you paid the airline for. In this case the sick divers can't dive, which is what they paid for. If they all got sick after they got home, this wouldn't be a thread.

 

[seaducer]

I agree that your basis and your proposal was a fair start point all around. That still only represents a part of your losses incurred during this event as a result of EV not taking adequate and reasonable measuress to prevent or minimize such an occurance.

I would agree, but say that that email, with the dollar amount, should have been sent only after EV responded to an opening email.

If you start off by saying you were disappointed in your vacation, and the in-action of the company to try to stop the spread of a disease they knew they had onboard, but leave it at that most buisness's would try to make things right. Then you say, well, I think this is a fair way to handle it.

The way the letter was written would have put anyone on the defensive. IMO.

 

[Ice Mike]

At some point, you may need to stop looking for reasonable compensation and start looking for maximum vengeance.

I would say this whole post is about getting maximum vengeance.

By naming the company, the OP is causing damage to the name and reputation of the company. Looks like vengeance to me.

The OP could have asked the question on this board without naming the company.

It also makes the situation more difficult for the company. Giving in now would be like giving in to blackmail/pressure. Mmmmm that must be a precendent the company does not want to make.


As to the original question.

Yes I think that you are entitled to some compensation.
Not because you became sick, but because I don't think the company can honestly say they have done all that could be expected from them to prevent you becoming sick.

And yes you asked in an annoying way but I also believe you are entitled to cash back and not just a discount on a future trip.


Just my 2 bar worth...but what do I know...just about now I probably need to be liberated from another european dictator. We Europeans seem to get into trouble the moment you leave us alone for a minute.

 

[murdrcycle]

Obviously you have never been on a liveaboard. Before you even step out your front door to drive to the airport to get to the liveaboard they already have your money. They do not wait until you get there to collect the rest. A deposit will only hold a spot on the boat for so long. If the balance hasn't been paid in full 30+ days before the charter is scheduled to depart, then the unpaid spots are released to anyone who wants them and has he money. It's not a job. it's an adventure. :mooner:

While this was my first thought after reading murdrcycle's post as well...I think it just further backs up his point. They aren't willing to take any chances that they won't get all their money. If their actions cause customers to lose out on money spent, oh well...tough luck.

I really wasn't indicting how they currently do business or trying to accurately depict it. I was just painting a "what if the situation was reversed" scenario.

 

[murdrcycle]

Everyone keeps digging on how the letter was written. Once again, what do you think the company would have done if they found some damage in the OPs room after he disembarked? My bet would be that he would get a bill or worse - maybe they would just charge his card or start collection proceedings. Would anyone even begin to imagine that they would send an e-mail asking about the damage, or probing letter to find out if he thinks he did the damage?? No such quarter would have been extended. So why should he be expected to?

 

[vladimir]

Okay. Throw out all the stuff about hygiene, crew members cooking, and bedding. Most respiratory viruses are spread by hand-to-hand or droplet contagion. Staying in the same room almost certainly didn't affect things, because most of these viruses are short-lived and killed by a minimum of light, dryness, or cleaning agents. They are passed by hand-to-hand or respiratory droplet transmission.

All the calls for compensation are predicated on the assumptions that there are easy steps to prevent the transmission of this virus and that EV should have taken those steps. The only physician to weigh in on the subject thinks that bleach in the windex bottle would not have made a difference. Have the crew wear masks? I have never seen anybody in New York City wear a mask outside a hospital--no food preparer, no subway conductor, no bus driver, nobody. I've never seen a stewardess on an airliner with a mask. I have never seen it in London, Singapore, or Hong Kong. I understand it is not unusual in Japan, but I've never seen it. Outside hospitals, it certainly is not a common precaution against the spread of virus. So what steps should EV have taken? Who else routinely takes these steps?

 

[BTravlin]

Everyone keeps digging on how the letter was written. Once again, what do you think the company would have done if they found some damage in the OPs room after he disembarked? My bet would be that he would get a bill or worse - maybe they would just charge his card or start collection proceedings. Would anyone even begin to imagine that they would send an e-mail asking about the damage, or probing letter to find out if he thinks he did the damage?? No such quarter would have been extended. So why should he be expected to?

I don't know how you come to this conclusion. Everything I've read about Explorer Ventures on SB up to now has been very positive and seems to indicate they do a good job of taking care of their customers under all types of circumstances.

 

[DandyDon]

I don't know how you come to this conclusion. Everything I've read about Explorer Ventures on SB up to now has been very positive and seems to indicate they do a good job of taking care of their customers under all types of circumstances.

Yep. I'm sure there are fancier boat, but they're day & night better than some others - like Blackbeard's, whom many like, for not much more money. I think the problem would...
1-Been resolved immediately had the email sent been more courtesous;
2-Or would today be resolved still if an apology for the email was sent with a polite request for their offer;
3-Either with a credit, not a refund, expected.

But like I said, we can drag this discussion out as long as the spare air vs pony bottle thread... :silly:

 

[redacted]

I think the email is just a minor distraction and an apology would only serve to solidify EV's apparent position that they have the money and don't intend to give any back in any form. They don't appear to accept any responsibility for 7 of their guest becoming ill even after thier ill purser explained to the guests that the ilness started 2 weeks prior. Maybe they will take some of the heat off of scuba.cam. Too bad. They could have jumped in early in this thread with damn near any reasomnable offer and gone away with some great publicity. As it is, they will probably get to keep all their profits from this customer but lose some future business thru tjhis negative publicity. Not really a problem if they are not having any problem filling berths each trip.