Would you Encourage or Discourage your Child to Enlist?

[H2Andy]

You think everybody is corrupt?

nope...

i think the war in Iraq is a huge mistake and damn if i dont' do everything in my power to keep my child from dying for a mistake

 

[MikeFerrara]

And dammit.... For all of the sound and the fury that we raise, none of us do, and I just shake my head sometimes when I look at what a damn scary place the world has become, the direction our society and our manufacturing power as a nation seems to be heading, and a lot of the weird things that our government is doing, the deep polarization that keeps our whole nation ripped in half and squabbling when we should be about the business of building bridges and reasoning together...

I just get tears of frustration in my eyes, and there's nowhere to vent it. There's no party, no senator, no congressman, no state representative that represents me or my views, and common sense seems to have caught a plane for some remote island and doesn't look to be coming back anytime soon... I'm just sick, sick at heart, sick to death of all the fighting and arguing and division and strife, and there are no answers. Anywhere. No one has the answers. Everyone's got plenty of great ideas... But there are no answers, and I don't think any are ever going to come.


*long sad sigh...* :shakehead

Well, yes. I guess that describes my feelings pretty well.

 

[lamont]

I haven't hear any plan B, from any one, only why water under the bridge was a collossal failure. So that is what I would tell my son or daughter, be part of a solution, any solution that you believe in.

Plan B:

http://chronicle.com/temp/reprint.php?id=mfnl83k4pvvmhbf50mnntpr4vy7fs7td

In particular the US government needs to stop trying to build a non-sectarian army in iraq. Any hope of that was let out of the bottle a long time ago and we can't put it back in. The best counterinsurgency military tactics that Petraeus can come up with can't make that one come true.

Even if we stay there with a military presence we need to start figuring out how to deal with the break up of the country. There will not be a central non-sectarian military and there will be a federation composed of a shiastan, kurdistan and sunnistan. Each will have their own militias. The key is to keep the whole thing federated enough so that Turkey doesn't become even more threatened by an independent kurdistan and invade, and to do some kind of oil sharing to keep the sunnis happy. After that its a matter of trying to mitigate the atrocities in the mixed ares like kirkuk and baghdad.

The good news is that once SCIRI controls a largely independent shiastan, with its own military and police force and with no US military presence, the mahdi army will go away. Similarly, as soon as the ex-Baathists in the Sunni areas form a government with military and police force, the jihadis will be forced out.

 

[MikeFerrara]

So whats the problem if they seize a boat load of coke and take the boat and sell it?

I say too bad...

that might not be so bad if that is really what's going on and that's how they use that power. The problem comes in when that same power permits them to take property without proof that there was a crime or that the property owner was involved in the crime if there was one.

Keep in mind that those who wrote our constitution rebelled against their government. Many of our constitutional protections and laws are there to protect us by limiting the power of the government.

yea, Mike, you and I need to look for some fans they can put in those vehicles.

A solar powered one would be really great. Those poor guys in the gun turets get baked....JB says the AC take the temp from 120 to about 100. The Hum V's don't have cigarette lighters or any plug ins. Summer is stretching out ahead, we should try and find cooling neck packs and that sort of thing.

I'm not an HVAC guy but I'd be interested in taking a look at that. The food thing too...those MREs are some really lousy stuff..

 

[H2Andy]

The good news is that once SCIRI controls a largely independent shiastan, with its own military and police force and with no US military presence, the mahdi army will go away. Similarly, as soon as the ex-Baathists in the Sunni areas form a government with military and police force, the jihadis will be forced out.

one hopes

at any rate, i agree with you that the solution lies in the direction of the US foregoing the fiction that is Iraq

 

[mdb]

Nice to hear all this theory from the noncombatants. Doubt it will play out anywhere close.

 

[H2Andy]

Nice to hear all this theory from the noncombatants.

while i have a lot of respect for our fighting men and women, frankly they don't know **** about the history and conditions in Iraq

and that's not their job. their job is to follow the commands of our civilian government ... who apparently knows **** about Iraq from their sad performance thus far

nobody listened to General Zinni (a combatant) and look where we are now

Iraq is not a country. it's a collection of tribes split into three general groups (Khurds, Sunnis, and Shiites). only ruthless force can keep them together.

good luck

anyone who knows anything about the history of Iraq knows that this war is a foolish endevour

 

[MikeFerrara]

Iraq is not a country. it's a collection of tribes split into three general groups (Khurds, Sunnis, and Shiites). only ruthless force can keep them together.

Sort of like Saddam did?

 

[H2Andy]

yup...

 

[Cacia]

Plan B:

http://chronicle.com/temp/reprint.php?id=mfnl83k4pvvmhbf50mnntpr4vy7fs7td

In particular the US government needs to stop trying to build a non-sectarian army in iraq. Any hope of that was let out of the bottle a long time ago and we can't put it back in. The best counterinsurgency military tactics that Petraeus can come up with can't make that one come true.

Even if we stay there with a military presence we need to start figuring out how to deal with the break up of the country. There will not be a central non-sectarian military and there will be a federation composed of a shiastan, kurdistan and sunnistan. Each will have their own militias. The key is to keep the whole thing federated enough so that Turkey doesn't become even more threatened by an independent kurdistan and invade, and to do some kind of oil sharing to keep the sunnis happy. After that its a matter of trying to mitigate the atrocities in the mixed ares like kirkuk and baghdad.

The good news is that once SCIRI controls a largely independent shiastan, with its own military and police force and with no US military presence, the mahdi army will go away. Similarly, as soon as the ex-Baathists in the Sunni areas form a government with military and police force, the jihadis will be forced out.

That sounds plausible, any politiicians you see on the horizon show any signs of promise? cause I just don't hear any ideas...

The talk of dividing the country has been there, the oil wells and access to that sliver of land is a rub. How can you be confident the Shia won't kill the Sunnis as soon as we leave?

only ruthless force can keep them together.

unacceptable what Saddam did. Maybe things have to get worse before they get better.

http://chronicle.com/temp/reprint.ph...nntpr4vy7fs7tdhttp://chronicle.com/temp/reprint.php?id=mfnl83k4pvvmhbf50mnntpr4vy7fs7td thanks. Forwarded it to Jb, he usually has something to say and likes reading that stuff.
he is very interested in the cultural aspects.